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Thread: Sub legal why people shoot!!!

  1. #1

    Default Sub legal why people shoot!!!

    Came within 20 yards of 2 brow tine 45-55 inch bull. All happened in about 30 seconds counted both side over and over studied the rack wanted to shoot talked my self down all this on last day of season. Sicknin but I believe I made the right choice there's next year with no fine also no trophy or meat but one large bull still walking. I might second guess myself think about this for awhile but this is what should happen.

  2. #2

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    Look at it this way, he'll be bigger next year. The only thing that matters in your situation is, were you confident in that animal being legal and taking the shot, if you waiver on that decision at all, then err on the side of not legal and let him walk for next year. You'll see him again next season if he doesnt succumb to winter hazards.

    I called in a 40'' range bull that had what looked like 3 brow tines. I waited and watched him for a while until I got a good frontal look and there was the slightest separation between the two tines off the brow palm and the main palm first tine. I wasn't in a rush to shoot, and wanted to make sure he was either legal or not legal. He was not legal, so he'll hopefully have the 3 brow tines next year. A lot of guys would have shot him on the spot. This is what separates us from the hasty and unethical hunters in AK.

    It wouldnt be the first bull I've seen that was 40'' with 3 brow tines though, not common as a 50'' 3 brow tine bull but common enough I don't pass over looking at "tweener" bulls just to be double and triple sure they do not have 3 brow tines.

  3. #3
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    It is tough to walk away from some of these bulls, but that is the way it goes. Over the years I have 'let walk' several nice looking bulls that 'might' have been legal, but they were too close to call. Just think of all of the time that one does not have to waste in a court room, for having shot a bull that was not legal!
    There is always next season!

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    It's tuff being in that position. You made the rite & responsible decision. I was in the same boat last year. I called a bull to 15yds of me. He had 2 by 3 tines in a 4 tine unit. He was right at the 50, give or take. I hade my M1A with me, plus an angle on one shoulder & a little devil on the other. Shot him. Nooo,,, don't shot him. He's over 50, shot him! He might not be, don't shot. He's right there. You can getta way with it if he's not. No, that's not the rite thing to do. SHOOT HIM! No don't shoot. AAHAAHHHHHH!!!!! And walk away.
    So there I was. Standing in front of the meat section at Costco sounding like Yo Sammity Sam. I know I made the rite choice, but I was kicking myself in the arss all winter.

    This year I drew an antlerless moose on the Knik River area. At 5:15, I woke up opening day with two moose in my lap. I had to wait an hour to shoot because it was to dark to see through the sight of my M1A. I shot my cow from 13 yards with last years calf sniffing me out from 5 yards. I never got out of my camping chair and the cow fell a 100 yards form the boat. Looks like I'll only be needing beans & rice from Costco this year.

    You didn't shot a sub legal moose and leave it to rot like the stories I hear of every year. Not shooting that moose makes you a better hunter then so many others. Next year man. Next year.

  5. #5
    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thayer the slayer View Post
    Came within 20 yards of 2 brow tine 45-55 inch bull.
    Pretty big difference between a 45 and a 55" bull. But, for some, 30 seconds isn't a lot of time to think about it. You did the right thing tho. Just read up about some of the tips for guestimating size here on the forum, and study up for next year.... http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=moosehunting.resources


    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Member sisusuomi's Avatar
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    We hunted this year also and were checked on all our kills by the Troopers. We heard stories about sub legal critters being snuck out, or left and other being boned out with not proof of sex and no antlers (actually witnessed that one being checked by the Troopers). WE, Alaskans, have a serious problem developing by a particular user group that either doesn't have the experience, hunter education or plain don't care what they shoot as long as they have meat to bring home to momma.
    If the ethical hunter doesn't take photos or movies of these people the situation is going to get worse. I've turned in people before and I'll do it again. I was taught that you do the right thing.
    I had a friend shoot a moose that was legal before it stepped into the brush and then walk back out illegal...how did that happen? Two moose. He didn't know it at the time and it cost him $300.00. He dressed it, bagged it and then transported to the road system where he called the Troopers. They arrived took the critter and gave him the $300.00 ticket. We all learned from his mistake. There can be more than one in the thicket so when it walks back out check the antlers again for your sake and the animals sake.
    The Trooper that took his moose and gave him the ticket was very impressed with his honesty and that he could of actually gotten away with his actions, but like he told the Trooper: it was a matter of doing the correct thing and not being a criminal

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    Member ChugiakTinkerer's Avatar
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    There must be a big population of 45" - 48" bulls this year. No matter how hard I tried I could not get the bull I was watching to grow another brow tine. There is always next year, though that is small comfort. I say well done to all you ethical hunters.

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    Member sisusuomi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChugiakTinkerer View Post
    There must be a big population of 45" - 48" bulls this year. No matter how hard I tried I could not get the bull I was watching to grow another brow tine. There is always next year, though that is small comfort. I say well done to all you ethical hunters.
    We agree. Saw a lot of "tweener" bulls and many, many cows with calves. The spike, fork (4brow tine) 50" rule is going to allow a lot of good quality bulls to develop for future years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Pretty big difference between a 45 and a 55" bull. But, for some, 30 seconds isn't a lot of time to think about it. You did the right thing tho. Just read up about some of the tips for guestimating size here on the forum, and study up for next year.... http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=moosehunting.resources

    Right there.^^^^ Lots of people shoot too soon, and then...ground shrinkage. Pat yourself on the back for not pulling the trigger too soon. Your heart would have sunk if you walked up on a dead bull and put the tape on him only to discover to your dismay YIKES 48 inches.
    Right there.^^^^ Lots of people shoot too soon, and then...ground shrinkage. Pat yourself on the back for not pulling the trigger too soon. Your heart would have sunk if you walked up on a dead bull and put the tape on him only to discover to your dismay YIKES 48 inches.
    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

  10. #10
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    Passing when in doubt is always the right choice. One season some years ago, my hunting partner and I passed on 7 bulls that were 48"-49" as we judged them, it is very likely that some of them would have taped out 50" plus, one in retrospect I am certain would have, but we let them all go and had a great experience overall, regardless that our freezers went unfilled that year.

  11. #11
    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thayer the slayer View Post
    Came within 20 yards of 2 brow tine 45-55 inch bull. All happened in about 30 seconds counted both side over and over studied the rack wanted to shoot talked my self down all this on last day of season. Sicknin but I believe I made the right choice there's next year with no fine also no trophy or meat but one large bull still walking. I might second guess myself think about this for awhile but this is what should happen.
    You made a great decision. The right one. When I saw the bull I harvested this year, alongside my younger brother, we both had our scopes on him. I thought he was close to 50 but I jus didn't know. Till I saw him turn his head and a 4th brow tine appeared. I took him. Clean lung shot. He measured out at 52"....... but I didn't think he was over 50 even at 40 yards...... Either way, i would not have fired without that 4th brow tine...my brother couldnt't see it , since he was at a diff angle , but I know he felt the same



    Release Lake Trout

  12. #12
    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt&FishAK View Post
    You made a great decision. The right one. When I saw the bull I harvested this year, alongside my younger brother, we both had our scopes on him. I thought he was close to 50 but I jus didn't know. Till I saw him turn his head and a 4th brow tine appeared. I took him. Clean lung shot. He measured out at 52"....... but I didn't think he was over 50 even at 40 yards...... Either way, i would not have fired without that 4th brow tine...my brother couldnt't see it , since he was at a diff angle , but I know he felt the same
    And actually the first taping was 50.5". I don't know how we did that haha but at home we got 52".



    Release Lake Trout

  13. #13

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    I remember growing up and hunting with some great old timers in deer camp. Their advice was you are never wrong, if you decide not to shoot for any reason or doubt.

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    Member fatbacks's Avatar
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    Learned my lesson this year and got off lucky. Was sheep hunting with my buddy and we turned around and a big bull was in the meadow below us. We were able to get within 280 yds and watch him for a while with both rifle scope and spotting scope. Discussed it for about 15 minutes. We both estimated 55". I dropped him and he measured out to 52". Way too close for comfort.

    LESSONS LEARNED: even though we were both educated on how field judge a moose, leave a large margin for error. Now, I know myself and my group of friends that I hunt with will not shoot a bull unless the meet the brow tine requirements or are pushing the 60" range (or spike fork). The pack out was ridiculously hard - took us 48 hours. I guess that is what happens when you shoot a moose in sheep country. Would've been a lot of work to turn over the meat to the state.

    Hope other will read this and leave room for error in field judging a moose. Seems to be a hot topic of discussion on here this fall. Unfortunately, judging by all the comments on outdoors directory, you guys are not the ones who need to reading it. It seems most people commenting on here are ethical hunters that genuinely try to do the right thing.

  15. #15
    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbacks View Post
    I guess that is what happens when you shoot a moose in sheep country. Would've been a lot of work to turn over the meat to the state.
    .
    I think you meant.......it would have been a lot of "heartache" to turn the meat over to the state......you already did all that hard work.
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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