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Thread: Hornady Neck Sizing Die

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    Member Yukoner's Avatar
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    Default Hornady Neck Sizing Die

    So my RCBS 7mmRM full length die went AWOL. No FL dies for this round at my LGS (Local Guns Store). They did have a Hornady neck sizing die for 7mmMag. I picked it up and as I recall, you can ONLY use this die to re-load for the same rifle you fired from originally, correct?
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
    So my RCBS 7mmRM full length die went AWOL. No FL dies for this round at my LGS (Local Guns Store). They did have a Hornady neck sizing die for 7mmMag. I picked it up and as I recall, you can ONLY use this die to re-load for the same rifle you fired from originally, correct?
    Cheers
    Paul
    Not necessarily. The risk is just that the original camber could be a wee bit larger than a subsequent chamber, potentially resulting in difficult or impossible fit.
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    Small risk, but there none the less. Thanks for the intel.
    Totally socked in here in Whitehorse, clouds to the ground, raining, cold, snow way, way down below timberline. Good day to load some ammo I reckon.
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    After neck sizing and before loading the cases, run the empty cases through your rifle to make sure they will fit otherwise you may have to unload them. Sooner or later you will need a FL sizer to set the shoulder back a bit as they will grow a bit in length over several firings.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Same happening here; 35 degrees and rain. Snow predicted tonight.

    I trust what Andy says about stretching is true, at least for many cartridges, but so far I've never had to FL size any of my 6.5x55 or 338-06 brass. I only neck size.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Same happening here; 35 degrees and rain. Snow predicted tonight.

    I trust what Andy says about stretching is true, at least for many cartridges, but so far I've never had to FL size any of my 6.5x55 or 338-06 brass. I only neck size.
    Tends to me an issue more with hot rod magnums and such, thought my .270 Remington brass needed shoulders set back after only a couple firings and I don't load hot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    Tends to me an issue more with hot rod magnums and such, thought my .270 Remington brass needed shoulders set back after only a couple firings and I don't load hot.
    I know it has been debated here before... I have difficulty getting my head wrapped around the concept that a piece of brass fired in and extracted from a given chamber somehow suddenly becomes too long to insert back into the same chamber (?). That defies logic to me. Is it possible that the cartridge shoulder is actually pulled forward during resizing when the neck sizing button is being pulled out through the neck? That would seem more plausible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    I know it has been debated here before... I have difficulty getting my head wrapped around the concept that a piece of brass fired in and extracted from a given chamber somehow suddenly becomes too long to insert back into the same chamber (?). That defies logic to me. Is it possible that the cartridge shoulder is actually pulled forward during resizing when the neck sizing button is being pulled out through the neck? That would seem more plausible.
    I hadn't seen it until I got my pair of 270s, the Remington brass I shot through a Remington 760 twice, would not chamber in my brand new Ruger American after full length resizing. I started measuring various dimensions and found the brass had stretched considerably. Once I trimmed it and resized it again it chambered just fine.

    Winchester brass run through both guns had no troubles.


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    Default Hornady Neck Sizing Die

    5 reloads later, my high pressure 35 Whelen loads still chamber in the same Ruger Hawkeye chamber- neck sized only with a Hornady neck sizer.

    Like IO, I have seen no evidence of case growth when repeatedly shot from the same chamber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    5 reloads later, my high pressure 35 Whelen loads still chamber in the same Ruger Hawkeye chamber- neck sized only with a Hornady neck sizer.

    Like IO, I have seen no evidence of case growth when repeatedly shot from the same chamber.
    We live in a plus and minus manufacturing world and our chambers and dies can vary and I seldom neck size. When I do neck size its with a milsurp rifle that has a fat chamber and my FL die is a little skinny.

    So I have a question, and with the big and mean critters have in Alaska WHY are you only neck sizing. I live in Pennsyltucky and our critters are fewer and smaller than yours. But having been in Alaska twice there some things I think you hunt with a bazooka.

    I keep thinking what a Canadian told me once.

    Our Polar bears are the meanest bears in the world.
    And you would be a mean SOB too if your balls were in ice water all day long.

    Below, Kevin Thomas of Team Lapua USA


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    I FL size for my hunting loads. During load development, I was shooting dozens of experimental rounds a day. To save brass, I neck sized.

    I also never had any reliability issues with neck sized brass.
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    Case head separations happen when shoulders are repeatedly pushed back and then stretched again when fired. Makes no sense that FL sized brass would last as long as NS brass. Arguements about accuracy aside, neck sizing is SO much quicker and easier than FL. You don't need lube, the necks are more uniform, and you don't have troubles with the expander pulling the shoulder up when withdrawing it thru the neck. (I have experienced this and made chamberable brass to long to fit in the same chamber after sizing!)

    I FL size a lot of ammo, especially hunting ammo, but for load development and shooting a lot of ammo from a specific rifle, I neck size whoever I can.

    JME

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Interesting statement quoted from Kevin Thomas. Two things stand out to me:


    • He states "You will have have problems if you stick to neck sizing." If he were directly involved in this conversation I would ask him to elaborate exactly what problems? I've never had any. This kind of vague, generalized statement against neck sizing tends to come from people who don't neck size and don't ever provide any factual specifics.




    • Mr. Thomas only FL sizes. Because the cartridges he works with "...had to work in a variety of different guns." The question at hand is not about a cartridge which needs to work in a variety of different guns. We're referring to brass which is to be fired repeatedly in the same chamber.


    My question stands for anyone who wishes to answer it and educate me. The question is specific to headspace of a single given chamber. How is it physically possible (as is so often alleged) that by virtue of firing a piece of brass in said chamber, the piece of brass can eventually become excessively long in terms of headspace, such that it can not be rechambered in the very same chamber without having it's shoulder "set back"?
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    My only possible answer to that question would that the pressure "stretches" the chamber and/or deflects the bolt (say .0005?). When it returns to its previous size it imparts residual spring in the brass. Not saying this is the case, just theorizing how it might be possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dkwarthog View Post
    My only possible answer to that question would that the pressure "stretches" the chamber and/or deflects the bolt (say .0005?). When it returns to its previous size it imparts residual spring in the brass. Not saying this is the case, just theorizing how it might be possible.
    Of course. And any of us who has ever fired an excessively "hot" round understands, or should understand, the the physics involved which result a "sticky" (or worse) bolt. However, any shouldered cartridge operated within engineered operating parameters, which when fired does not result in over expanded chamber and brass (bolt is not stuck, extraction is normal), should be able to be rechambered immediately back into the same chamber from which it was just extracted, with exactly the same fit. This cycle should be indefinitely repeatable. I would be interested to see this proven false.
    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    5 reloads later, my high pressure 35 Whelen loads still chamber in the same Ruger Hawkeye chamber- neck sized only with a Hornady neck sizer.

    Like IO, I have seen no evidence of case growth when repeatedly shot from the same chamber.
    The challenge is for someone to counter Akheloce's stated experience. Show evidence of growth from bolt face to shoulder datum line in a cartridge fired repeatedly with same load, in same gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akheloce View Post
    Like IO, I have seen no evidence of case growth when repeatedly shot from the same chamber.
    Good point, my example was flawed as I was going between two different chambers!

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    Even with pressures within specs the chamber does expand a bit and the brass expands with it. The chamber being steel returns fully to its prefired size unless pressure is higher than it should be. Brass doesn't return fully to its pre fired size and over several firings can become snug in the chamber. The higher the pressure the worse the problem. Older lower pressure rounds such as the 6.5x55 and others would show less of this than the new short magnums that operate quite high pressure, some to the point of sticky bolt firing factory rounds. I suspect some of the lower pressure rounds wear out brass before it stretches to the point of creating problems. Lots of folks use case trimmers to trim back brass that has some how gotten longer so I know that brass flows under pressure. I personally have never fired a piece of brass enough to experience this problem and I don't load to absolute max so it may never be an issue for me but I don't neck size only much either. I do use FL dies set long so they size a little short of hitting the shoulder which also sizes the body some. Many people that load a bunch more than I have apparently experienced problems with case stretching and I can see how it is possible.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    ...lower pressure rounds such as the 6.5x55...
    The 6.5x55 SKAN/SE plays up around 55,000+ psi in modern actions. Well below "magnum" pressures, granted, but still no slouch. But that's a different thread.

    338-06 runs only 1000 psi behind the 338 Win Mag...
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    I've neck size 7mm Mag brass many times without ever having to FL size it. I'm thinking I never will.

    I ALWAYS check case length on all rifle katridges, and I find that trimming is often needed.

    Neck Only sizing is easier, and SOMETIMES you can do it with a FL Die BUT not always. It pends on the particulars.

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    Whether it's due to neck sizing only, my Tikka certainly likes the new loads. Having said that, the tikka has never met a load it didn't like. Seems a hallmark of these rifles from all I have ever heard.
    Think I'll pick up a neck sizer for my .350 RM, just makes sense for belted cartridges.
    cheers
    Paul
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