Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 85

Thread: Demostration against KRSA today and this week

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,533

    Default Demostration against KRSA today and this week

    The Kenai Area Fisherman Coalition is staging a demonstration against the practices of the Kenai River Sport Fishing Association today and on Thursday at the Sport Center at 4:330 PM

    They also ran an ad in the Redoubt Reporter today, Clarion on friday, and ADN on Sunday asking donors and sponsors to stop supporting this organization.

    Response from some is that this is a commercial fishing effort. I can assure you it is not as KAFC participants are not commercial fisherman. Their talking points are pretty clear on why they are doing this and it is not about allocation but ethics and behavior of KRSA (Robert Ruffner treatment has this community upset and it is not going away).

    Anyway thought people might like to know.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    The Kenai Area Fisherman Coalition is staging a demonstration against the practices of the Kenai River Sport Fishing Association today and on Thursday at the Sport Center at 4:330 PM

    They also ran an ad in the Redoubt Reporter today, Clarion on friday, and ADN on Sunday asking donors and sponsors to stop supporting this organization.

    Response from some is that this is a commercial fishing effort. I can assure you it is not as KAFC participants are not commercial fisherman. Their talking points are pretty clear on why they are doing this and it is not about allocation but ethics and behavior of KRSA (Robert Ruffner treatment has this community upset and it is not going away).

    Anyway thought people might like to know.
    I think this is not smart. perhaps some, not all, of the locals will see it as you described. But the fishers in Anchorage, the Mat Valley and in Fairbanks might see it very differently. Perhaps as you said was the response from some already.. I doubt that KRSA will be going away ever.and believe that this type of activity will only strengthen it's resolve. It might feel good to carry a sign short term but the longer term impacts might not be favorable. My guess is that there will be many legislators, including the president of the senate and two U.S. Senators present who will be very offended. Do you think it is wise to piss those folks off. I don't see the upside. It will require heightened security, involvement of both state and federal parks people, perhaps the Coast Guard, Alaska State Troopers, and local law enforcement. All at considerable expense and all meant to embarrass a couple of people. There are far better ways to get the message accross. If Sens Peter M or Chenault support this it may cost them. Just my take , but what do I know anyway.

  3. #3
    Member hoose35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Soldotna, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    2,891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    I think this is not smart. perhaps some, not all, of the locals will see it as you described. But the fishers in Anchorage, the Mat Valley and in Fairbanks might see it very differently. Perhaps as you said was the response from some already.. I doubt that KRSA will be going away ever.and believe that this type of activity will only strengthen it's resolve. It might feel good to carry a sign short term but the longer term impacts might not be favorable. My guess is that there will be many legislators, including the president of the senate and two U.S. Senators present who will be very offended. Do you think it is wise to piss those folks off. I don't see the upside. It will require heightened security, involvement of both state and federal parks people, perhaps the Coast Guard, Alaska State Troopers, and local law enforcement. All at considerable expense and all meant to embarrass a couple of people. There are far better ways to get the message accross. If Sens Peter M or Chenault support this it may cost them. Just my take , but what do I know anyway.
    Nothing wrong with people protesting against a group they dislike. If that pisses politicians off, then that just solidifies the fact that this so called fish war is all about politics and allocation. It also shows who's in bed with who. Why would this demonstration offend you quest?
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    Nothing wrong with people protesting against a group they dislike. If that pisses politicians off, then that just solidifies the fact that this so called fish war is all about politics and allocation. It also shows who's in bed with who. Why would this demonstration offend you quest?
    Where did I say it offended me Hoose? I am not a member of KRSA and do not have a dog in this fight. And I know nothing anyway. I depend on others like yourself to educate and inform me.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    I think this is not smart. perhaps some, not all, of the locals will see it as you described. But the fishers in Anchorage, the Mat Valley and in Fairbanks might see it very differently. Perhaps as you said was the response from some already.. I doubt that KRSA will be going away ever.and believe that this type of activity will only strengthen it's resolve. It might feel good to carry a sign short term but the longer term impacts might not be favorable. My guess is that there will be many legislators, including the president of the senate and two U.S. Senators present who will be very offended. Do you think it is wise to piss those folks off. I don't see the upside. It will require heightened security, involvement of both state and federal parks people, perhaps the Coast Guard, Alaska State Troopers, and local law enforcement. All at considerable expense and all meant to embarrass a couple of people. There are far better ways to get the message accross. If Sens Peter M or Chenault support this it may cost them. Just my take , but what do I know anyway.
    I believe this is more positive than negative. One it is targeted to donors of the classic and the people you mention are not players. Lisa is not attending the classic from what I understand and while she is making an appearance to Penney's house her supporters down here are telling her KRSA is not good for her. If they lose her support they take a big hit. Next, the people in the valley - they are out to hurt this community and KPB. Do you really think we can change their minds. What we can do is tie them to KRSA unethical behavior.

    This is not about embarrassing a couple of people. It is about an organization. The fact you cannot see that is sad because you cannot recognize the organization is less than honorable.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    I believe this is more positive than negative. One it is targeted to donors of the classic and the people you mention are not players. Lisa is not attending the classic from what I understand and while she is making an appearance to Penney's house her supporters down here are telling her KRSA is not good for her. If they lose her support they take a big hit. Next, the people in the valley - they are out to hurt this community and KPB. Do you really think we can change their minds. What we can do is tie them to KRSA unethical behavior.

    This is not about embarrassing a couple of people. It is about an organization. The fact you cannot see that is sad because you cannot recognize the organization is less than honorable.
    reasonble people can differ on how they view things. There may be many who disagree with you who do not feel sad because you see things differently. Don't kid yourself about Sen M's loyalties. She is as much a supporter of KRSA as was Ted. Remember that her husband is on the Board. She already got less votes from the peninsula than the rest of the stae on a percentage basis. And got elected on a write in. The few outspoken people on the Peninsula will not impact her election. And this will be viewed as embarrassing her and not soon forgotten. And there is more to serving on the senate than peninsula fishing issues. Do you really think that this demo will tie the many people in Anch and the Mat valley to unethical behavior as you call it? This will just get them riled up. I wish that I could be there to see what bad behavior takes place and how authorities deal with it.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    reasonble people can differ on how they view things. There may be many who disagree with you who do not feel sad because you see things differently. Don't kid yourself about Sen M's loyalties. She is as much a supporter of KRSA as was Ted. Remember that her husband is on the Board. She already got less votes from the peninsula than the rest of the stae on a percentage basis. And got elected on a write in. The few outspoken people on the Peninsula will not impact her election. And this will be viewed as embarrassing her and not soon forgotten. And there is more to serving on the senate than peninsula fishing issues. Do you really think that this demo will tie the many people in Anch and the Mat valley to unethical behavior as you call it? This will just get them riled up. I wish that I could be there to see what bad behavior takes place and how authorities deal with it.
    And what makes you think bad behavior will take place. Shows your bias Questairtoo and is insulting. Do you live in Anchorage or the Valley? Give me a break about not forgotten. Who cares about Lisa if the funds dry up from donors. Lets stick to the issues and not try to divert the discussion. Do you believe KRSA is an ethical organization and why if you do? Simple question and trying to say this should not happen because it will upset some people is pure diversion. They do not seem to care about upsetting this community. Maybe Lisa should think about her husband on the Board of an organization that has this behavior. Oh yea, she was caught with her hand in the cookie jar with the land deal. Her husband is part of the problem not the solution. Fear of pissing off people is not going to stop the backlash from what this organization has done over the years.

  8. #8
    Member hoose35's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Soldotna, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    2,891

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    Where did I say it offended me Hoose? I am not a member of KRSA and do not have a dog in this fight. And I know nothing anyway. I depend on others like yourself to educate and inform me.
    It obviously offends you. Never said you were a member of krsa...... You do have a dog in this fight, that's why you insist on stirring the pot in every thread that has to do with krsa, ESSN, Setnet ban etc etc. You only post in those threads, period. You are here for that sole purpose, so yeah, you obviously have a dog in the fight.

    I think many of the politicians of this state have lost touch with the fact that they are elected by us to serve us, we don't elect them so we can serve them. If we the people decide to object a user group, and a senator takes offense to that, then so frickin what. You make it sound like there will be repercussions for the people of this state because of this protest? Is that how our government works? Apparently that's how you feel it should work, that's sad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    Where did I say it offended me Hoose? I am not a member of KRSA and do not have a dog in this fight. And I know nothing anyway. I depend on others like yourself to educate and inform me.
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    384

    Default

    [QUOTE=Nerka;1498332]And what makes you think bad behavior will take place. Shows your bias Questairtoo and is insulting. Do you live in Anchorage or the Valley? Give me a break about not forgotten. Who cares about Lisa if the funds dry up from donors. Lets stick to the issues and not try to divert the discussion. Do you believe KRSA is an ethical organization and why if you do? Simple question and trying to say this should not happen because it will upset some people is pure diversion. They do not seem to care about upsetting this community. Maybe Lisa should think about her husband on the Board of an organization that has this behavior. Oh yea, she was caught with her hand in the cookie jar with the land deal. Her husband is part of the problem not the solution. Fear of pissing off people is not going to stop the backlash from what this organization has done over the years.[/QUOTE

    you are way too emotional and unnecessarily critical. Many protests result in bad behavior from all sides. I did not say there would be bad behavior by the protestors. Bad behavior can come from those being protested. I hope there is none but still wish I could be there for both protests to see what happens. Wasn't intending to insult anyone but simply recognize that **** happens. My posts have been neutral and taking into consideration all sides. It is you who are biased in the language you use. I thought we had gotten past that Nerka. People accuse kRSA of many things. Others accuse UCIDA and KPFA of many things. So what. Someday it might be worth discussing why you have such a hard for KRSA. You take your antipathy way too far. What happened that makes you so angry? You seem pretty balanced and informed but go way out of your way to insult that organization so often and so hard. Do you believe everyone who is a member or in the Board is corrupt and unethical?

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    It obviously offends you. Never said you were a member of krsa...... You do have a dog in this fight, that's why you insist on stirring the pot in every thread that has to do with krsa, ESSN, Setnet ban etc etc. You only post in those threads, period. You are here for that sole purpose, so yeah, you obviously have a dog in the fight.

    I think many of the politicians of this state have lost touch with the fact that they are elected by us to serve us, we don't elect them so we can serve them. If we the people decide to object a user group, and a senator takes offense to that, then so frickin what. You make it sound like there will be repercussions for the people of this state because of this protest? Is that how our government works? Apparently that's how you feel it should work, that's sad.
    I choose to post on this forum because it is interesting to me. It does not mean I have a dog in the fight. Your accusations are misplaced and show that you do not ever want anyone to disagree with you. Now, I could say that is sad but I do not feel that way about you and your one sided outlook. It just shows ignorance. And the last person I want to feel sad about my outlook is you. Thanks for the helpful and informative reply.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,039

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    I think this is not smart. perhaps some, not all, of the locals will see it as you described. But the fishers in Anchorage, the Mat Valley and in Fairbanks might see it very differently.
    That exemplifies why KRSA is being protested. KRSA's tentacles reach too far and have too much political influence. They are the Kenai River Sportsfishing Association. Not the Anchorage/Mat Valley/Fairbanks River Sportfishing Association. If Anchorage/Mat Valley/Fairbanks wants KRSA in their town, influencing management their river, then they can have them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    I doubt that KRSA will be going away ever.
    KRSA is only a creation of its leader, Bob Penney, and now his concubines. They area small clique of ideologues. It is not an organization that truly represents sport fishing. KRSA will eventually go away fizzling into the dark just like the fishery they claim to steward has.


    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    My guess is that there will be many legislators, including the president of the senate and two U.S. Senators present who will be very offended. Do you think it is wise to piss those folks off.
    I hope you are not implying that the great folks of the Peninsula capitulate and assimilate to the whims of a few of our politicians. Yikes.

    Quest, you said it would be wise not to piss them off. Question: piss them off about what?

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sterling
    Posts
    421

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    I choose to post on this forum because it is interesting to me. It does not mean I have a dog in the fight. Your accusations are misplaced and show that you do not ever want anyone to disagree with you. Now, I could say that is sad but I do not feel that way about you and your one sided outlook. It just shows ignorance. And the last person I want to feel sad about my outlook is you. Thanks for the helpful and informative reply.
    You are pegging the BS meter. You have made way too many vehement and passionate posts on the set net subject. You are a partisan based on the evidence of what you have written. You habitually claim others are commercial fishermen when it is apparent from their forum history they are not. You are making yourself look silly and deceptive. But i must commend you, as you have been a lot more civil of late.

  13. #13

    Default Demostration against KRSA today and this week


  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,533

    Default

    [QUOTE=Questairtoo;1498340]
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    And what makes you think bad behavior will take place. Shows your bias Questairtoo and is insulting. Do you live in Anchorage or the Valley? Give me a break about not forgotten. Who cares about Lisa if the funds dry up from donors. Lets stick to the issues and not try to divert the discussion. Do you believe KRSA is an ethical organization and why if you do? Simple question and trying to say this should not happen because it will upset some people is pure diversion. They do not seem to care about upsetting this community. Maybe Lisa should think about her husband on the Board of an organization that has this behavior. Oh yea, she was caught with her hand in the cookie jar with the land deal. Her husband is part of the problem not the solution. Fear of pissing off people is not going to stop the backlash from what this organization has done over the years.[/QUOTE

    you are way too emotional and unnecessarily critical. Many protests result in bad behavior from all sides. I did not say there would be bad behavior by the protestors. Bad behavior can come from those being protested. I hope there is none but still wish I could be there for both protests to see what happens. Wasn't intending to insult anyone but simply recognize that **** happens. My posts have been neutral and taking into consideration all sides. It is you who are biased in the language you use. I thought we had gotten past that Nerka. People accuse kRSA of many things. Others accuse UCIDA and KPFA of many things. So what. Someday it might be worth discussing why you have such a hard for KRSA. You take your antipathy way too far. What happened that makes you so angry? You seem pretty balanced and informed but go way out of your way to insult that organization so often and so hard. Do you believe everyone who is a member or in the Board is corrupt and unethical?
    I guess when I read your post that you wish you could be there and watch the bad behavior it implied that it would happen. Maybe if you had said I wish I could be there to observe the event and hope there is no bad behavior" I would have responded in a different manner. I had hoped we had got past some things also but your tone was not just dialog. I may have miss read it which is possible with a forum.

    However, you asked why my passion against this organization. It is simple. They have hurt the resource, our community, local professionals, and local community members. They have used power politics to intimidate individuals and they have used unethical practices to achieve their objectives. Therefore, if one is associated with KRSA then you are guilty by actions of the organization. If one is voting against their tactics then one should make that objection known. But one cannot say just a few are running KRSA. Eldon Mulder as President speaks volumes to me with his ethical record. Bob Penney as founder went after my job three or more times because I did good science that did not agree with his goals. So yes I am personally involved and you can call it emotional. I call it fighting for truth and justice.

  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Response from some is that this is a commercial fishing effort. I can assure you it is not as KAFC participants are not commercial fisherman. Their talking points are pretty clear on why they are doing this and it is not about allocation but ethics and behavior of KRSA (Robert Ruffner treatment has this community upset and it is not going away).
    KAFC put a lot of effort into this and funded the ads, however I think it's important for people to realize that this demonstration was inspired and organized by a bunch of various members of our community. Sport fish, comm fish, private business owners, conservationists - a lot of decent, normal people from different walks who feel that KRSA and their actions are harming our community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    I think this is not smart... I don't see the upside.
    Shocking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    My guess is that there will be many legislators, including the president of the senate and two U.S. Senators present who will be very offended. Do you think it is wise to piss those folks off.
    They should not be offended that many people feel that KRSA is a lobbying organization disguised as a charity, and that their actions cause harm to our community. These are clear facts, and the demonstrators have a clear message. If these people choose to associate with this organization knowing what we all know, then they can smile and wave back at the polite people holding signs. If that offends them, then they are obviously in the wrong line of work.

    Really, your insinuations that there would be repercussions from public officials for people exercising their rights of assembly and free speech are very concerning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    It will require heightened security, involvement of both state and federal parks people, perhaps the Coast Guard, Alaska State Troopers, and local law enforcement. All at considerable expense and all meant to embarrass a couple of people.
    Only because you and your friends called them, suggesting that there will be violent, dangerous, bloodthirsty mobs threatening some very important people, then called those people to warn them you were on to them and the cops would be watching...

    I can see it now - "Careful folks, don't pack too many boats too tightly together on the river for your demonstration, you might disturb the habitat. The KRSA refreshment boat with Bloody Marys and cigars is having a hard time getting through to the important fishers."

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    I wish that I could be there to see what bad behavior takes place and how authorities deal with it.
    Case in point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    There are far better ways to get the message accross. If Sens Peter M or Chenault support this it may cost them. Just my take , but what do I know anyway.

    Why would it cost our Senators to stand up for their community? Who elects them? So those who stand in public with a sign should beware of offending public officials, but you are free to suggest things like this at will?

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,533

    Default

    tbsmith - just a correction. People in the community supported this effort but KAFC is the force behind it. They took input from others and had volunteers but the go button was pushed and funded by them. Saying others are part of the output is true but without KAFC organization it would not have happened. Commercial fisherman had nothing to do with the funding and today on the river there was not any commercial fisherman. On Thursday they have requested all of the community to show up but the permits are in KAFC name.

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    384

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    KAFC put a lot of effort into this and funded the ads, however I think it's important for people to realize that this demonstration was inspired and organized by a bunch of various members of our community. Sport fish, comm fish, private business owners, conservationists - a lot of decent, normal people from different walks who feel that KRSA and their actions are harming our community.



    Shocking.



    They should not be offended that many people feel that KRSA is a lobbying organization disguised as a charity, and that their actions cause harm to our community. These are clear facts, and the demonstrators have a clear message. If these people choose to associate with this organization knowing what we all know, then they can smile and wave back at the polite people holding signs. If that offends them, then they are obviously in the wrong line of work.

    Really, your insinuations that there would be repercussions from public officials for people exercising their rights of assembly and free speech are very concerning.



    Only because you and your friends called them, suggesting that there will be violent, dangerous, bloodthirsty mobs threatening some very important people, then called those people to warn them you were on to them and the cops would be watching...

    I can see it now - "Careful folks, don't pack too many boats too tightly together on the river for your demonstration, you might disturb the habitat. The KRSA refreshment boat with Bloody Marys and cigars is having a hard time getting through to the important fishers."



    Case in point...




    Why would it cost our Senators to stand up for their community? Who elects them? So those who stand in public with a sign should beware of offending public officials, but you are free to suggest things like this at will?
    "Only because you and your friends called them"? Smithtb: Please back up that statement with proof. Any evidence. What ever you are smoking or drinking is getting the best of you. Better seek treatment for your dilutional behavior.
    And by the way, what would the four or five of you have to say on this forum if I did not post once in awhile. Been pretty quiet recently. Think I will give it another rest. Maybe a little longer this time. You will miss my input.

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    tbsmith - just a correction. People in the community supported this effort but KAFC is the force behind it. They took input from others and had volunteers but the go button was pushed and funded by them. Saying others are part of the output is true but without KAFC organization it would not have happened. Commercial fisherman had nothing to do with the funding and today on the river there was not any commercial fisherman. On Thursday they have requested all of the community to show up but the permits are in KAFC name.
    A lot of independent people worked on organizing this, and the most important thing for people to realize is that it happened because there is a common disgust in our community for KRSA's tactics and politics. Common being the key. I suspect we will see a sustained push against this organization, from a lot of different angles and perspectives.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sterling
    Posts
    421

    Default

    From the front page of the Peninsula Clarion:

    http://peninsulaclarion.com/news/201...ation-launched

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    2,039

    Default

    Questairtoo, you rant a lot and avoid questions, but you have yet to say why this protest is a crawl in your azz.

    What issues being protested do you disagree with? Exactly why are you defending KRSA?

    Leaving a thread when people call you out on what you say is cowardly. I wish you would stay - you bring great insight to the dark side of KRSA ideologues, and not just for four or five of us.

Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •