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Thread: So what are the good for?

  1. #1
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    Default So what are the good for?

    Those Lighter Bullets in the 30-30.

    125 grain, or 130 Grain 30-30 bullets.

    I've got some and I've loaded some, but according to the data, they don't seem to be much faster than the 170 or 150 grain bullets.

    Has anyone found them of value? Over a heavier bullet?

    Just curious.

    Smitty of the North
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    Tree rats at a longer range than a .22
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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Those Lighter Bullets in the 30-30.

    125 grain, or 130 Grain 30-30 bullets.

    I've got some and I've loaded some, but according to the data, they don't seem to be much faster than the 170 or 150 grain bullets.

    Has anyone found them of value? Over a heavier bullet?

    Just curious.

    Smitty of the North
    Well Smitty, you bring up a good point. The cowboys would have laughed at them. However two of the best selling rounds on the planet right now pretty much duplicate what the 30-30 will do with light bullets. The 7.62x39 has been around for too long and now we Americans revive the 30 Whisper and call it the 300 Black Out. Everyone but me loves their black guns and now we have one that will do what the 30-30 will do with light bullets only. Not for me.

    A few years ago our coyote hunting group went black gun bananas. We had a christmas get together and everyone was bragging about the greatness of the AR15 and how accurate their particular gun was. So now we had a competition in the works to see who's Hienz 57 black gun shot the best groups. In the process of acquiring dead nuts accuracy the boys found that the longer .224 bullets gave them the best groups. I made myself an outcast to their nonsense. These 7 guys had been hunting coyotes together since the mid 70's. If you ran a coyote full bore across an open field at a distance of 200 yards in front of anyone of these guys when they were holding their trusty time proven bolt guns the coyote would die. You would hear one or maybe 2 gun shots and it was over with. On one particular saturday morning I made a push through a brush patch that lay perfect for a NW wind. I jumped a pair of coyotes and as many times before they headed north up the draw that lay between two crop fields then would go under a bridge on a dirt road and another half mile they were in a good size timber and safe from us. On this day two guys were parked along the draw and one on the bridge. One of the trucks had a sole occupant the others had two hunters each. 4 of the five guys had Ar15s. It just so happened that the guy on the bridge was buy himself and was shooting his 20 year old model 70 in 22-250. The guys in the first two trucks shot 90 rounds and killed one of the coyotes and emptied their guns at the second one. Perry who was sitting on the bridge did as I have seen him do hundreds of times, he let the coyote run under the bridge and then got out of the truck, rested across the hood and dumped him with one shot.

    Now Smitty is thinking what's this got to do with the 30-30 and light bullets. Well Smitty, those guys with their 16 inch barreled black guns in 223 shooting 69 and 70 grain bullets were only getting 25-2600 fps. I will admit that I was a little ticked off at the group because we were about killing coyotes in a methodical manner and now all of a sudden we are spraying the countryside with hundreds of bullets and killing one third as many coyotes. I loaded some 30-30 rounds with H335 and 100 gr half jacket bullets. I loaded them a little warm but they were around 38,000 psi so I was fine. I then killed a big male coyote that was dead tired because we had chased him 5 miles and he had been fired upon 50 times. I killed him with that model 94 30-30 and all the guys laughed at me. I can remember loud mouth Jimmy saying you killed that coyote with what? Heck I can throw a rock faster than that 30-30 shoots.Then we all got together for a winter cook out at Perry's house and we took advantage of his 100 yard lighted range and fine tuned our rifles for the second half of the winter's coyote killing season. Perry had his chrony set up(on purpose as he was also annoyed with all the racket made from the black guns) so after the boys had shot some of their pet AR15 rounds through the fps machine I got out the 30-30. Jimmy said have you lost your mind? Then I shot it through Perry's chrony and in front of the whole crowd I said what readings were you getting with your $3,000 dollar Wilson Combat coyotie misser Jimmy? He spouted back a bit over 2600 fps. Well says I, that means my 30-30 at 2750 feet per second is a better 200 yard varmint gun than your Wilson Combat coyotie misser. I know, I know ballistic number make that long 223 bullet catch up and pass the half jacket bullet in a hurry. However I was merely talking a language Jimmy understood and making a point in doing so. I said Jimmy I have fired but 2 rounds out of this 30-30 and killed 1 coyote. You have shot 100 hundred rounds for every coyote you have killed this season with that Wilson machine gun. Perry said guys, we have always been respected for the manner in which we hunt but now we have farmers talking about all of the gun fire coming from our group. Perry then said either we go back to our old method of hunting or we don't do it at all. Jimmy is back to using his Ruger 77 in 220 Swift and the guys still using AR's are using them in a manner where they are aiming as they fire rather than spray and pray.

    Smitty, as usual I got windy again. However if you really like lever guns and you load them with a 100 grain short jacket or 100 grain round nose the 30-30 does make a decent 200 yard varmint gun. I actually killed 2 coyotes with that 30-30 that year and fired but 3 rounds. So I'm going to go ahead and make all of the black gun fans mad and say that the 30-30 with light bullets is just as effective as any short barreled black gun out to 200 yards. You can spout numbers until your blue in the face but in the real world none of those numbers matter. Dead coyotes matter.

  4. #4

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    Bud of mine has a scoped Marlin that really likes them, turning in groups that would make most bolt owners do backflips. So he's used them lots on deer. Never had a single bad experience, so he's till using them. Long ago in a land far away I had a Remington 788 in 30-30 that won several local sporting rifle bench rest competitions (no single shots, factory original with scope power limited to 6x- a real fun competition). Did all that with Sierra 125 grain spitzers. We're talking 5-shot groups consistently under half an inch, here. Yeah, I was stupid to let that sweet rifle go away, but when you're moving to Alaska you get all kinds of weird advice..... Anyhoo, I whacked half a dozen deer with it over several years. Deadisdeadisdead. I'd have no qualms whacking caribou with it.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Bud of mine has a scoped Marlin that really likes them, turning in groups that would make most bolt owners do backflips. So he's used them lots on deer. Never had a single bad experience, so he's till using them. Long ago in a land far away I had a Remington 788 in 30-30 that won several local sporting rifle bench rest competitions (no single shots, factory original with scope power limited to 6x- a real fun competition). Did all that with Sierra 125 grain spitzers. We're talking 5-shot groups consistently under half an inch, here. Yeah, I was stupid to let that sweet rifle go away, but when you're moving to Alaska you get all kinds of weird advice..... Anyhoo, I whacked half a dozen deer with it over several years. Deadisdeadisdead. I'd have no qualms whacking caribou with it.
    I think every old guy has had a 788 or two that he wishes he had back. I once had a Savage 340 in 30-30 that was the higher grade version with a walnut stock. I have a picture somewhere of me wearing my whites and holding a very dead fox in one hand and the Savage that rolled him out of the nest in the other. That was before I landed a Rock Chucker so I was shooting store bought 150 grain round noses. I traded that rifle the next fall to a guy that was going to Missouri deer hunting and all he had was a 788 in 223. Missouri says no to anything smaller than 243. I kept that 788/223 for a lot of years. I gave it a trigger job and then gave it to my little brother. He wouldn't part with it for love nor money.

  6. #6

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    Smitty, I once loaded 30-30 cases with a .310 diameter round ball and 3.5 grains of Unique. I would just push the ball in until it looked like it was half way and then ran it through a crimp die. They would shoot as accurate as my eyes would allow. That was a short lived experience and I don't remember ever shooting any edibles with it. I'm wondering why I never pursued that venture further. I think it got edged out when I got a 32 Cherokee muzzle loader. That's been a while ago! I don't remember putting any cotton balls on top of the powder to hold it against the primer but I must have. Either that or I just pointed it sky ward and wacked the butt stock to get the powder in the bottom of the case. That's been so many shooting ventures ago that I can't bring it all to front and center in my memory!

  7. #7
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    EKC:

    I know that lightweight Cast Bullets with reduced loadings can be accurate.

    Those 110 grain Cast bullets you sent me were all goin in pretty much the Same ragged hole at 25 yards while they lasted. I shot'em in the matches.

    I was jist wondering if the 125s and 130s weights were Beeg Game Loads, or, only Varmint Loads.

    Thinking maybe for Deer, but I doubt if there is any advantage if they don't shoot much Flatter. I believe your loads may be too HOT for my comfort. I'll hafta do some more Data Checking.

    Thanks to all, for thoughts and info.
    SOTN
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    EKC:

    I know that lightweight Cast Bullets with reduced loadings can be accurate.

    Those 110 grain Cast bullets you sent me were all goin in pretty much the Same ragged hole at 25 yards while they lasted. I shot'em in the matches.

    I was jist wondering if the 125s and 130s weights were Beeg Game Loads, or, only Varmint Loads.

    Thinking maybe for Deer, but I doubt if there is any advantage if they don't shoot much Flatter. I believe your loads may be too HOT for my comfort. I'll hafta do some more Data Checking.

    Thanks to all, for thoughts and info.

    SOTN
    HA! Smitty when I look at my load data from back in the 70's it's evident that I often pushed the envelope with hot loads. Not so much anymore! The pressure curve goes up dramatically when trying to hot rod reloads in contrast to actual additional gains in velocity and energy. I'd hate to blow up a gun for a measly 100fps.

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    I've shot a few coyotes here and there with 223 out of a Thompson Contender, Mini 14, AR-15 and even owned a Savage 340. It will put them down right on the spot 60% of the time. 15 to 20% of them run off not to be recovered.
    I have an old heavy clunker 788 in 22-250. All original with a trigger that is probably close to 6 pounds. I have lost exactly one coyote using it, all the rest dropped on the spot. In my thoughts there isn't a better round for coyotes. It will flat layout a coyote on a dead run better at 250 yards that a 223 will do at 100 yards. I cut about two inches off the original stock so my kids could use it on their first deer hunt when they were 10 and 11. Worked like a charm.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by PRDATR View Post
    I've shot a few coyotes here and there with 223 out of a Thompson Contender, Mini 14, AR-15 and even owned a Savage 340. It will put them down right on the spot 60% of the time. 15 to 20% of them run off not to be recovered.
    I have an old heavy clunker 788 in 22-250. All original with a trigger that is probably close to 6 pounds. I have lost exactly one coyote using it, all the rest dropped on the spot. In my thoughts there isn't a better round for coyotes. It will flat layout a coyote on a dead run better at 250 yards that a 223 will do at 100 yards. I cut about two inches off the original stock so my kids could use it on their first deer hunt when they were 10 and 11. Worked like a charm.
    I would whole heartedly agree. The 243 and 220 swift also. I have killed the biggest share of mine with a 243/70 grain Hornady. Last several years I've been using Hornady 58 gr VMax bullets at 3800 FPS. I shoot some with my mini 14 too especially early in the season.

  11. #11

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    Oh yeah. Mo bullet betta! Or at least more velocity. If I'd logged all of them over the years, I've probably shot the most with a 257 Roberts 3" sporting the Speer 100 grain HPs at 3150fps. Obviously I wasn't trying to save hides!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Oh yeah. Mo bullet betta! Or at least more velocity. If I'd logged all of them over the years, I've probably shot the most with a 257 Roberts 3" sporting the Speer 100 grain HPs at 3150fps. Obviously I wasn't trying to save hides!
    A lot of the hides we killed the last three years weren't worth saving. Smokey over in Illinois trapped a whole bunch of nice looking yotes last winter. We didn't see near as many coyotes last year. Mange has a way of keeping the numbers in check. I shot one after Christmas on one of those mornings when it was -10 and the wind was howling. I jumped this mangey sick looking fella and he ran(sorta) for 50 yards and then just stood there. He had zero hair from his ribs back. It was a mercy killing. I shot several with my 7mm-08 last winter on windy days. Jimmy blew a couple apart with his 7mag and 100 grainers. When we jump a coyote and get him running the first order as a rule of thumb is to announce his condition. If it's a dandy as in a large dark colored male then the blow em up guns go away for something less likely to ruin a hide. For the most part we give our hides to a young 30 year old guy one town to the east. This guy isn't capable of holding down a job but he has a huge garden and sells produce at the farmers market and then he traps real hard in the winter. He also makes some dandy skinning machines..Smokey uses one.

    Boy....that first cup of java early in the morning can make a fella ramble.

    Smitty, around here opening weekend of deer season finds every fat guy in the woods. They don't look at their gun all year long then when deer season roles around they become mighty hunters. They trample every bush outside of the city limits. They do stay out of my hunting woods....they know better. When the fat guys are out getting thorns stuck in em, are falling in creeks and stirring up the country side adorned in blaze orange would be a good time to be sitting on a game trail in the woods with a 30-30 and some little lead bullets. Lots of coyotes on the move during fat guys in the woods weekend. Might even get to yell at a lost fat guy and make him cry. By the way I'm not picking on robust people. Some of the manliest roughians I know are big fellas. How-some-ever if you have ever watched "Fat Guys in the Woods" on the weather channel then you know the people that I'm talking about. They have no sense of direction and if they find a stream over 2 feet wide they are looking for a bridge......heaven help them if a nature call overtakes them when they are in the woods....they usually end up wearing it. Only on that show can 4 fat guys be smiling at the end of their week in the woods when they have had nothing to eat but one red winged black bird split 4 ways. I mean dang!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    A lot of the hides we killed the last three years weren't worth saving. Smokey over in Illinois trapped a whole bunch of nice looking yotes last winter. We didn't see near as many coyotes last year. Mange has a way of keeping the numbers in check. I shot one after Christmas on one of those mornings when it was -10 and the wind was howling. I jumped this mangey sick looking fella and he ran(sorta) for 50 yards and then just stood there. He had zero hair from his ribs back. It was a mercy killing. I shot several with my 7mm-08 last winter on windy days. Jimmy blew a couple apart with his 7mag and 100 grainers. When we jump a coyote and get him running the first order as a rule of thumb is to announce his condition. If it's a dandy as in a large dark colored male then the blow em up guns go away for something less likely to ruin a hide. For the most part we give our hides to a young 30 year old guy one town to the east. This guy isn't capable of holding down a job but he has a huge garden and sells produce at the farmers market and then he traps real hard in the winter. He also makes some dandy skinning machines..Smokey uses one.

    Boy....that first cup of java early in the morning can make a fella ramble.

    Smitty, around here opening weekend of deer season finds every fat guy in the woods. They don't look at their gun all year long then when deer season roles around they become mighty hunters. They trample every bush outside of the city limits. They do stay out of my hunting woods....they know better. When the fat guys are out getting thorns stuck in em, are falling in creeks and stirring up the country side adorned in blaze orange would be a good time to be sitting on a game trail in the woods with a 30-30 and some little lead bullets. Lots of coyotes on the move during fat guys in the woods weekend. Might even get to yell at a lost fat guy and make him cry. By the way I'm not picking on robust people. Some of the manliest roughians I know are big fellas. How-some-ever if you have ever watched "Fat Guys in the Woods" on the weather channel then you know the people that I'm talking about. They have no sense of direction and if they find a stream over 2 feet wide they are looking for a bridge......heaven help them if a nature call overtakes them when they are in the woods....they usually end up wearing it. Only on that show can 4 fat guys be smiling at the end of their week in the woods when they have had nothing to eat but one red winged black bird split 4 ways. I mean dang!
    I am glad you chaps finally got TVs over there EKC, now you can wacth the Kardashians too! Its a great show, I hear, about some gals that really don't do anything of real interest, but it gives the Fat Guys in the Wood's wives something to do while their husbands are eating blackbirds and bugs....
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  14. #14

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    [QUOTE=Smokey;1496832]I am glad you chaps finally got TVs over there EKC, now you can wacth the Kardashians too! Its a great show, I hear, about some gals that really don't do anything of real interest, but it gives the Fat Guys in the Wood's wives something to do while their husbands are eating blackbirds and bugs....[/QUOTE

    I can't believe anybody would watch that show😴. Now they have a new one called "I'm Cait". It's about Bruce Jenner's perversion conversion. Makes the Fat Guys show seem watchable.

  15. #15

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    Smitty, I'm gonna test some uncharted waters....at least for me. I have some .309 170 grain bullets that are unsized. I'm gonna role some of them in liquid Alox and load them to around 1,000 FPS and see how they shoot in my old H&R 30-30. For some reason my grandson has taken a shine to that old gun. He might as well be shooting it. He can break light bulbs at 100 with those light lead bullets like I sent you. They are gone so I have to find a new diet to feed the H&R.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    ...309 170 grain bullets that are unsized....
    I'll go out on a limb and forecast that they'll be real accurate. My formula for cast bullets in almost all calibers is to size them .001 over bore size for best accuracy.

  17. #17
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    I have one of those H&R 30/30s for shooting cast boolits. My load puts out a 150 gr loverin design at about 1800fps and about 1 1/2" at 100yds. If I remember correctly I'm sizing them at .310 or .311.
    .001 or .002 oversize is pretty normal for shooting cast. Lotsa fun and cheap to shoot.

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