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Thread: Non-licensed person tagging along

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    Default Non-licensed person tagging along

    Can anyone point me towards the regulations on someone accompanying you during a hunt. Do both people need a license, tag, and harvest ticket? Can someone come with me who does not have a license or tag?

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    Yes they can. They are on a camping trip and you're on a hunting trip. Period...
    They may walk along, even carry a firearm strictly for bear protection. That's accepted...
    BUT: if they spot animals and tell you, back up your shot, guide you via hand signals to an animal, just holding a range finder and giving you distances, sitting on a hill with you just glassing, and possibly carrying the same ammo as you for their bear protection. May/can/could be "construed as hunting".
    The LEO who contacts you, will make his/her determination to decide that...
    As far as the regs on it, its vague... Call the Troopers and ask them..
    Please, others chime in... I'm certain there's plenty more to it...

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    Of course they can come along. Just make sure if he is asks anything about hunting he said “I AM NOT HUNTING.” and every body in the party and at home has the same story. In case the Trooper call his or your house and ask if he is out hunting.

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    Let's not make this complicated. If HE says HE's not hunting, he doesn't need a hunting license. Although if SOMEONE else says otherwise it could complicate things. what you can't control always complicates things. Keep it simple, stupid. (Kiss)
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    Call the wildlife troopers in the GMU your friend will be accompanying you. Get the trooper's name that answers your question(s).
    Getting legal advice from an open forum is worth exactly what it cost you. Everyone has an opinion - it may or may not coincide with a trooper's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swampdonkey View Post
    Yes they can. They are on a camping trip and you're on a hunting trip. Period...
    They may walk along, even carry a firearm strictly for bear protection. That's accepted...
    BUT: if they spot animals and tell you, back up your shot, guide you via hand signals to an animal, just holding a range finder and giving you distances, sitting on a hill with you just glassing, and possibly carrying the same ammo as you for their bear protection. May/can/could be "construed as hunting".
    The LEO who contacts you, will make his/her determination to decide that...
    As far as the regs on it, its vague... Call the Troopers and ask them..
    Please, others chime in... I'm certain there's plenty more to it...
    That's the job of a hunting partner/guide and they do not need a hunting license. Think of all the places that are draw permits, are they not allowed to take a buddy without a permit to help spot, glass, point, range, back up? Almost everyone in the TMA, DCUA, and Kodiak and every other place with draw only would be hunting by themselves! Bottom line is, if they do not intend to shoot, they are not "hunting".

    Maybe it won't be in the over the counter reg book, but in the actual thick regulation book, you could find the definition of "hunting" which states:

    "hunting" means the taking of game under AS 16.05 - AS 16.40 and the regulations adopted under those chapters;

    Dig here deeper if interested, but bottom line is if your buddy is only there to tag along/help pack/whatever, he doesn't need a license.
    http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/akst...section940.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Call the wildlife troopers in the GMU your friend will be accompanying you. Get the trooper's name that answers your question(s).
    Getting legal advice from an open forum is worth exactly what it cost you. Everyone has an opinion - it may or may not coincide with a trooper's.
    And, KEEP CALLING until you get the answer you like.

    What they tell you would not be binding anyway.

    There is an "Ask an Alaska Wildlife Trooper" forum among these forums.

    SOTN
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_reb View Post
    That's the job of a hunting partner/guide and they do not need a hunting license. Think of all the places that are draw permits, are they not allowed to take a buddy without a permit to help spot, glass, point, range, back up? Almost everyone in the TMA, DCUA, and Kodiak and every other place with draw only would be hunting by themselves! Bottom line is, if they do not intend to shoot, they are not "hunting".

    Maybe it won't be in the over the counter reg book, but in the actual thick regulation book, you could find the definition of "hunting" which states:

    "hunting" means the taking of game under AS 16.05 - AS 16.40 and the regulations adopted under those chapters;

    Dig here deeper if interested, but bottom line is if your buddy is only there to tag along/help pack/whatever, he doesn't need a license.
    http://www.touchngo.com/lglcntr/akst...section940.htm
    That's why I said: "may/could/can" be construed... I didn't say that anything was "cut and dry"...
    It will be up to the officer in the field and his "interpretation of the law"...
    Personally, if there's no intention to hunt, it's a non issue..
    But in the field is usually where the misinterpretations, confusion, and nonsense takes place..
    Sometimes the cops are spot on, sometimes they're a soup sandwich...
    In the field, it's a crapshoot who you'll talk with...
    Regardless of what somebody at adf&g or the troopers assured them and told them in town...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post

    There is an "Ask an Alaska Wildlife Trooper" forum among these forums.

    SOTN
    I was just thinking the other day that State Trooper forum should be deleted, it hasn't seen a single post in almost 3 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huntfishtrap247 View Post
    Can anyone point me towards the regulations on someone accompanying you during a hunt. Do both people need a license, tag, and harvest ticket? Can someone come with me who does not have a license or tag?
    The way I would look at this is....he's not hunting. Show me a regulation that says he needs to do something, rather than assume he has to and find a reg that says otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    Call the wildlife troopers in the GMU your friend will be accompanying you. Get the trooper's name that answers your question(s).
    Getting legal advice from an open forum is worth exactly what it cost you. Everyone has an opinion - it may or may not coincide with a trooper's.
    Did this on a GMU boundary lines. Go the trooper's name, card and have it all in the hunting regs/

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    Quote Originally Posted by oakman View Post
    I was just thinking the other day that State Trooper forum should be deleted, it hasn't seen a single post in almost 3 years.
    I was thinking the same thing awhile back. If you read the "ground" rules for that forum, that's pretty much why there hasn't been a post in so long. They will only pick and choose the questions they want to answer, (no "what if" questions which actually do happen all the time in the field.....things usually aren't ever that cut and dried). And if their answers are too vague to somebody reading them and they ask for clarification, then they won't respond as that is also against the rules..... "needing too much explanation......call instead."

    The way I read it is that they really can't be bothered that much, unfortunately, as it would be a great way to really pick a trooper's brain and get detailed information for all to see. But I seriously doubt any one trooper wants to put himself "out there" like that....."But trooper so-n-so said it right there in black and white!" Which again I think is unfortunate.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Another option is for the non hunting person get a fishing license and say they are fishing, or a hunting license and looking for grouse. Lots of creative ideas. Under no circumstance is it okay for the non tagged person to shoot th big game though. Buying a fishing or hunting license supports conservation and should be considered IMHO :-)
    "...and then Jack chopped down the beanstock, adding murder and ecological vandalism to the theft, enticement and vandalism charges already mentioned, but he got away with it and lived happily ever after without so much as a guilty twinge about what he had done. Which proves that you can be excused just about anything if you're a hero, because no one asks the inconvenient questions." Terry Pratchett's The Hogfather

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    First of all, I don't think it is that big of a deal, nor do I think it is at all uncommon, for someone to accompany someone else on a hunt. For the sake of safety and survival, it is smart to have someone with you rather that to go it alone. Does anyone have any examples to share where someone was busted for not having a license (or specific tag/permit) while accompanying a duly licensed and tagged hunter on a hunt? I just don't see it as something the LEO's are out there looking for, nor do I think it's against the regs, but I'd welcome any stories from folks who have witnessed otherwise. Even as far as helping to scout, operating the range finder, etc. Is the intent of the law really that this is illegal? Again, please provide previous experience if I'm wrong.

    Regarding the "ask a trooper" situation, it is very frustrating that troopers will not respond to "what if" scenarios. We just want to know what is legal or not, so why can't they tell us? Well the answer (I believe) is simply that they cannot tell us. They may know the letter of the law / regulations, but when you ask something that isn't specifically addressed in those, they could give you their opinion of how someone might apply the law to the given situation, but that of course changes from person to person. A different trooper, or a judge, may apply the regulation differently to the situation than they would. So they are setting themselves and you up for a bad situation by telling you how they would interpret or apply the law. You could very well go out and do things in accordance to that and have someone else come down on you by interpreting the law in a different way.

    This is a big problem with our legal system in general, not just with hunting and fishing. We will never be able to create a set of laws that encompasses every possible situation or eventuality, not even close. We create more and more laws to try and address every situation instead of focusing on intent, morals, ethics, and judgment. Whoa - got off on a tangent there...

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    Good way to introduce someone to hunting without the expense of a license and tags. When I was a kid, we always spent our first season, 'walking with dad' and learning the ropes. Did not carry a firearm that 1st year. Usually at about 12-13 years old. If dad thought you were ready, you bought a license and tags next season and packed an old lever gun.
    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gr is for Greg View Post
    Regarding the "ask a trooper" situation, it is very frustrating that troopers will not respond to "what if" scenarios. We just want to know what is legal or not, so why can't they tell us? Well the answer (I believe) is simply that they cannot tell us. They may know the letter of the law / regulations, but when you ask something that isn't specifically addressed in those, they could give you their opinion of how someone might apply the law to the given situation, but that of course changes from person to person. A different trooper, or a judge, may apply the regulation differently to the situation than they would. So they are setting themselves and you up for a bad situation by telling you how they would interpret or apply the law. You could very well go out and do things in accordance to that and have someone else come down on you by interpreting the law in a different way.
    -Gr
    I guess, I agree with you.

    I figger they are operating mostly according to the policies that their superiors have decided on. They may do this in different ways, at different times.

    You must interpret the law, and they enforce the law.

    They are not your friend. They are lookin for an opportunity to write a ticket or make an arrest. That goes for all LE officers.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    I guess, I agree with you.

    I figger they are operating mostly according to the policies that their superiors have decided on. They may do this in different ways, at different times.

    You must interpret the law, and they enforce the law.

    They are not your friend. They are lookin for an opportunity to write a ticket or make an arrest. That goes for all LE officers.


    Smitty of the North
    Don't talk to the Popo. LOL
    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    They are not your friend. They are lookin for an opportunity to write a ticket or make an arrest. That goes for all LE officers.

    Smitty of the North
    There's some truth to that.
    Greg, here's one...
    It's not hunting, but here's an example..
    Just yesterday, my wifes daughter, fiancé, and our 2 grandkids accompanied my wife while my wife was fishing. A trooper shows up and starts checking licenses. Not a problem...
    My step daughter is watching and playing with two young (4 and 2) and very wet children. As she's pouring water out of the kids boots and wringing out the kids socks, the trooper approaches her and asked her to see her license. She said I'm not fishing, I don't have a license.
    He says "But you're wearing hip waders. Where's your fishing rod?"
    She's like "Excuse me? Do you see these wet kids? That's why I'm wearing waders. I told you I'm not fishing, so back off".
    He seemed perturbed, but let it go...
    So as you can see... What they see first, they'll assume too. Just like most folks.
    In an hunting situation, I could EASILY see it going downhill regardless of the hunters and non hunters best of intentions...
    I'm not a cop basher, but this does happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post

    There is an "Ask an Alaska Wildlife Trooper" forum among these forums.

    SOTN
    Might take a couple of years to get a response. lol

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    So as you can see... What they see first, they'll assume too. Just like most folks.
    In an hunting situation, I could EASILY see it going downhill regardless of the hunters and non hunters best of intentions...
    I'm not a cop basher, but this does happen.[/QUOTE]

    New Signature line: "I'm not a cop basher, I just play one on forums" LOL

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