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Thread: Another Sharing Expenses Thread, and a Warning

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    Default Another Sharing Expenses Thread, and a Warning

    I was at a friend's boat at a storage lot in Seward and it had a note taped on the tongue of his trailer warning folks somebody was hanging around the ramps offering to share gas, oil, bait, etc. expenses to go fishing, then giving out a ticket with a $5000 fine if they accepted. We've gone through the voluntary contribution of expenses key to avoiding the for hire or charter rules so is this a legal trap establishing payment prior to taking somebody out as a condition? The Open Seat thread would be in trouble if it was. Anybody have any experience or insight on what's going on here and who's doing it?

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    Member theultrarider's Avatar
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    After what I went through years ago I don't accept a dime for anything. Just isn't worth it. If I take you fishing, I'M taking you fishing. Period.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I haven't been "propositioned" but on my trip before last out of Seward the National Marine Fisheries officers were at the ramp checking your catch and to see if anyone was guiding illegally (I was out with my son so no hassle), and last Saturday we were greeted by a trooper doing random check for licenses and bag limits.

    Not sure why such heavy handed enforcement this year?
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    Member DMan's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if the 'rules' are online anywhere around this? I have always wondered what the technical law was. If a family member or friend brings bait on the boat and then walks inside and pays the fuel bill my understanding is that you're in the clear. So things like the Open Seat thread where people want to help with 'fuel' I think you're okay. But maybe I am way wrong on this.
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    Don't they have anything better to do ?? Here's a interesting FB page, they are after all of us, they suck
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    i could be waaay wrong and dont quote me or use this as gospel. I thought it was the exchanging of currencey and the close proximity to the craft or body or water. Remeber the state needs money, they are out to get every dime they can....

    i dont let total stranges on my boat unless it is an emergency situation, period.

    i think the key words are establishing payment "prior" to taking somebody "out" as a condition
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    Supporting Member Old John's Avatar
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    According to CHAPMAN PILOTING, 58th Edition, copyright 1987.. (page 50) Any passenger who contributes ANY consideration, directly or indirectly, for his passage is classified as a Paying passenger, the thusly the owner/skipper must be licensed… I'm reasonably sure the USCG has a booklet or pamphlet available (somewhere) that is probably more up to date than the Chapman Piloting copy that I have.. And I'd want to see it before I accepted any "gifts" from anyone who went fishing with me on my boat.

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    I've heard lots of speculation on this over the years. Does anyone have any firsthand knowledge about someone getting busted for this? Seems like there would be a lot of loopholes on something like this...for instance, if the owner of the boat isn't present (a few guys on a borrowed boat). Who gets the ticket if they all share expenses?

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    Does that mean if my friend helps pay for gas in my pickup, that I am running a taxi business?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    Does that mean if my friend helps pay for gas in my pickup, that I am running a taxi business?
    No. But it does make you a guide if you guys are headed to Seward with a boat in tow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Old John View Post
    According to CHAPMAN PILOTING, 58th Edition, copyright 1987.. (page 50) Any passenger who contributes ANY consideration, directly or indirectly, for his passage is classified as a Paying passenger, the thusly the owner/skipper must be licensed… I'm reasonably sure the USCG has a booklet or pamphlet available (somewhere) that is probably more up to date than the Chapman Piloting copy that I have.. And I'd want to see it before I accepted any "gifts" from anyone who went fishing with me on my boat.
    I just typed a long response to this with my full story. Went to hit enter and my system crashed!

    Short version is that this is exactly the standard that the US park service and the troopers help us to on the Kenai river years ago. Your buddy can not pour you a cup of coffee out of his thermos! You can pour him one however.

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    I paid for the fuel in a buddies plane once. Wonder if I (or he) should report to the nearest detention center.
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    I'm not a fish and game cop, just a fisherman like the rest of you, but I try to know the law so that I stay on the right side and keep my job. Alaska Statute 16.40.299 defines sport fishing guide services as assistance, for compensation or with the intent to receive compensation, to a sport fisherman to take or to attempt to take fish by accompanying or physically directing the sport fisherman in sport fishing activities during any part of a sport fishing trip. So, the letter of the law says if you intend to get paid for any part of taking someone fishing then you're in violation. I don't know what AST uses as it working probable cause to determine if a violation has occurred, but I suspect the example given in the first post constitutes a violation. The safest bet is to only take friends and be prepared to pay everything, but I'm poor like everybody else and anyone who doesn't voluntarily chip in isn't going to get a second ride.
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    So if I ride out to Swanson River with a buddy, and pay for some gas, is that a violation? Seems pretty stupid to me.
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    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    My understanding (not based on any law) is that you can legally split costs for the trip. That is how I try to do it. I usually pay more than the rest.

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    Ok, so read the statute below. It says "licensed". I'm not a licensed guide so it doesn't apply in my opinion. Also read the penalty definition. No where does it say Joe Blow boat owner, everything is worded towards a "licensed guide". Maybe I'm wrong. I guess a call to the troopers and or maybe a lawyer might be in order because it's total BS that you can't spread the cost of a fishing trip among buddies. Taking my boat out and running down to POW Passage costs about $600 with boat gas, truck gas, parking, launch, tunnel etc...

    http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/...Section299.htm

    http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/...Section290.htm
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    [QUOTE=Stanly;1492767]Ok, Taking my boat out and running down to POW Passage costs about $600 with boat gas, truck gas, parking, launch, tunnel etc...

    This does not include the midget pole dancers either, they ain't cheap!
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    Andy does have a huge dance floor on that floating houseboat. He could probably fit full size pole dancers on there next time


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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanly View Post
    Ok, so read the statute below. It says "licensed". I'm not a licensed guide so it doesn't apply in my opinion. Also read the penalty definition. No where does it say Joe Blow boat owner, everything is worded towards a "licensed guide". Maybe I'm wrong. I guess a call to the troopers and or maybe a lawyer might be in order because it's total BS that you can't spread the cost of a fishing trip among buddies. Taking my boat out and running down to POW Passage costs about $600 with boat gas, truck gas, parking, launch, tunnel etc...

    http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/...Section299.htm

    http://touchngo.com/lglcntr/akstats/...Section290.htm
    If you read AS 16.40.260(b) it says you have to have a license to provide sport fishing services, which is the definition I gave and you listed in your first link. I suspect the citations issued cite the statute I just gave as the violation. I think the bottom line is if you expect to get paid to take someone fishing then you're in violation of the letter of the law. I hear you about expenses and I wouldn't want to be footing the bill all the time to take friends fishing.

    I'll use my own personal example. I had to sell my boat last year and I ride with a friend now. Every time we go I ask how much he spent on gas in his truck and gas in his boat. There's usually three of us, so I give him 1/3 of his expenses. The difference is my friend never asks for or demands payment for taking me along, I give him money out of my felt obligation...think of it as a tip where there's no requirement to do it. I also would like to be asked to go with him again and I consider myself a decent friend, so I don't want to leave him holding the bill at the end.

    What would get us in trouble is if upfront my friend asks me to go fishing with him and tells me I have to pay 1/3 of the expenses in order to go along. Now he's expecting to get paid to take me fishing and would constitute sport fishing services.
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