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Thread: Confused about +P ammo

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    Member wiiawiwb's Avatar
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    Default Confused about +P ammo

    I have a Ruger SRH Toklat. I'm looking to use +P 45LC ammo but not sure whether it would void the warranty. I went to the SAAMI website and ended up more confused than when I started. I called Ruger and they said I should shoot ammo that meets the SAAMI pressure guidelines. I asked about using BB and was advised not to.

    For 45LC, isn't the max SAAMI pressure 14,000, or am I reading this all wrong?

    http://www.saami.org/specifications_...ssure_CfPR.pdf

    How can I tell whether a particular ammo is Ok to shoot in my Toklat especially if it is from a company that is know for hot ammo? For example, would a CorBon 225 gr, DPX round be exceeding the Ruger specs?

    http://www.corbon.com/corboncart/dpx45c225-20

    Double Tap specifically says not to use it because it is 27,500 psi. If the Toklat is built to handle 454 Casull which I think is SAAMI to 65,000 psi, then why couldn't I fire the Cor-Bon 45LC ammo at 27,500 psi?

    http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_351&product_id=133

    Any guidance about how I can determine whether a +P 45LC ammo is safe/proper to use would be greatly appreciated.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    No 45colt ammo made and sold will reach 454 Casull build pressure specs.Chamber specs on the 454 are slightly different and held to a better standard in the Ruger 454 than their 45colt. For the most part +P and ++p are pie in the sky numbers.Myself I have never had a problem with the hottest BB,doubletap or corbon ammo in 45colt through my Alaskan 454.I have also handloaded 45colt ammo hotter than these makers and had no problem.If a ammo maker states don't shoot their ammo in a Ruger I must ask what gun would it be safe in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiiawiwb View Post
    I have a Ruger SRH Toklat. I'm looking to use +P 45LC ammo but not sure whether it would void the warranty. I went to the SAAMI website and ended up more confused than when I started. I called Ruger and they said I should shoot ammo that meets the SAAMI pressure guidelines. I asked about using BB and was advised not to.

    For 45LC, isn't the max SAAMI pressure 14,000, or am I reading this all wrong?

    http://www.saami.org/specifications_...ssure_CfPR.pdf

    How can I tell whether a particular ammo is Ok to shoot in my Toklat especially if it is from a company that is know for hot ammo? For example, would a CorBon 225 gr, DPX round be exceeding the Ruger specs?

    http://www.corbon.com/corboncart/dpx45c225-20

    Double Tap specifically says not to use it because it is 27,500 psi. If the Toklat is built to handle 454 Casull which I think is SAAMI to 65,000 psi, then why couldn't I fire the Cor-Bon 45LC ammo at 27,500 psi?

    http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_351&product_id=133

    Any guidance about how I can determine whether a +P 45LC ammo is safe/proper to use would be greatly appreciated.
    If the gun is rated to shoot .454 Casull, it's rated to shoot .454 Casull. SO, anything within the SAAMI curves for .454 Casull should be fine and will meet with Ruger's recommendation that you shoot ammo that meets SAAMI guidelines. 454 Casull is basically .45 Magnum. Think .44 special vs .44 magnum. Maybe oversimplified, but you get the point.

    ps, re-read the double tap site. it actually says: "These loads are safe in all Ruger revolvers, TC Contender, Colt Anaconda, BFR revolvers, and Freedom Arms firearms. "

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    Member wiiawiwb's Avatar
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    Does this mean the Toklat can handle the 45LC double tap at 27000 psi whereas a dedicated revolver that was only chambered 45LC couldn't? I would think it would be the same issue with a 44 mag revolver. Namely, can it handle a jacked up 44 special round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiiawiwb View Post
    Does this mean the Toklat can handle the 45LC double tap at 27000 psi whereas a dedicated revolver that was only chambered 45LC couldn't? I would think it would be the same issue with a 44 mag revolver. Namely, can it handle a jacked up 44 special round.
    Given that Double tap says: "These loads are safe in all Ruger revolvers, TC Contender, Colt Anaconda, BFR revolvers, and Freedom Arms firearms. " I'd say not exactly. Keep in mind, Ruger doesn't want a lawsuit. So they have a canned "follow the specs" position because it prevents them from being held responsible if you go outside that envelope. Second, it saves them money if you shoot something outside spec and your gun blows up. They can deny repairs since it wasn't their fault. Double Tap isn't Ruger, they can say whatever they want. It's likely that they have some kind of test result that backs up their statement, but Ruger isn't bound to stand behind what Double Tap says.

    That's all separate from the can it handle it debate. Yes, a 44 Mag can handle a hot 44 special. Cause it's made to withstand a 44 mag. But if the hot special exceeds SAAMI for 44 mag, you may or may not have an issue.

    In your case, I doubt you'll ever have a problem shooting the DT ammo from your Toklat anyway.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    And a 357mag can handle +P+ 38spec
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    No 45colt ammo made and sold will reach 454 Casull build pressure specs.Chamber specs on the 454 are slightly different and held to a better standard in the Ruger 454 than their 45colt. For the most part +P and ++p are pie in the sky numbers.Myself I have never had a problem with the hottest BB,doubletap or corbon ammo in 45colt through my Alaskan 454.I have also handloaded 45colt ammo hotter than these makers and had no problem.If a ammo maker states don't shoot their ammo in a Ruger I must ask what gun would it be safe in.
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    I used to own one of the first run Super Redhawks in 454, bought the first one they had at the Fred Meyer in Fairbanks. That pistol digested thousands of 454 Casull ammo, and I shot a lot of 45 Colt loaded to custom 5 shot 45 Colt specs, when I traded it off, it was still just as tight and accurate as the day I bought it, wish I still had it. I have several Ruger single actions in 45 Colt, the large frame pistols have digested a ton or rounds loaded to 30,000 CUP from my old Hodgdon #26 load manual. The only Ruger I have had any issue with was my Super Blackhawk, I had to send it in for a cracked barrel at the throat end, they sent me a Bisley 44 at 50% off to replace it, that Super Blackhawk sent somewhere in the neighborhood of 5000 rounds downrange, most were full power 44 loads.

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    Ruger isn't going to tell you anything other than "use saami spec ammo". You won't find any brass stamped as such. At least not that I have ever seen.

    There really is no such thing as "45 Colt +p" ammo. There is 45 Colt sammi spec and 45 Colt "Ruger Only" loads that you can find in Loading Manuals. There never used to be anyone loading the Ruger Only ammo but now we have Buffalo Bore, Corbon, etc.

    That Ruger 454 can handle any commercially loaded 45 Colt and 454 Casull ammo as well as handloads loaded to spec.

    The "weak link" and first thing to go in any revolver is the cylinder. The Ruger 454 cylinder is made from Carpenter steel and has been proof tested far, far beyond any commercial loaded ammo and any load in loading manuals. Here is an article about the cylinder steel as well as the barrel. It's one tough wheelgun!

    Enjoy your new 454!

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    Thanks Snyd for posting the link to the Carpenter article. It was a interesting read.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiiawiwb View Post
    Does this mean the Toklat can handle the 45LC double tap at 27000 psi whereas a dedicated revolver that was only chambered 45LC couldn't?
    If it were only that simple.

    There are many different revolvers chambered in the 45 colt and they vary in strength from guns that can only handle original 45 colt pressure levels, to those that can handle 454 casull pressure levels.

    Even within Ruger you have the Super redhawk, redhawk, blackhawk, bisley and vaquero (old and new model). It used to be one could say "Ruger level loads" but then they came out with the new vaquero built on a smaller frame and hence not as robust as the others.

    Back to your original question, yes a 454 can handle any 45 colt commercial ammo. Some, but not all 45 colts can handle 27 kpsi ammo.
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    Member wiiawiwb's Avatar
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    Thanks for everyone's input. It is really appreciated. After reading the article, graciously provided by Snyd, I am astonished that Ruger can sell the 454 at the price point it does. I'm not complaining...don't get me wrong.

    92,000 psi shot from the chamber. Wow!

    Last night, I finally shot a few 454 rounds from my Toklat. After watching a number of YouTube videos showing the recoil I was a bit apprehensive but worked up the nerve.

    Boy, talk about fun!!! I videoed it and everything. The recoil was not as much as I was expecting. It was easily managed and I was really never off target for the second shot. Having said that, it would be quite the accomplishment to squeeze off 5 rounds in DA after shooting the first in SA.

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