Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Flies for fish that "don't" eat flies

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    7

    Default Flies for fish that "don't" eat flies

    So I've been doing a lot of research the last few months but I haven't been able to do any field research yet. Was hoping for some advice from all of you that say sparse shrimp patterns work best for reds.

    These flies I've been trying are a combination of several styles. The sockeye lightening, kkk, and the Krystal shrimp.

    I called Gamakatsu asked them for their recommendations on hooks and this is what they came up with from what I was looking for. They are tied on a big river bait hook size 4 and 6. They said this is the strongest thickest wire they have in smaller sizes and that lots of people are raving over this new hook. The size 6 meets the gap requirement for the Russian. The 4's are a little too big of gap so would be ideal for the Kenai they also have a 7/32 bar bell eyes to get down better in the swift waters of the Kenai.

    Any other hooks that you like for these style patterns? I'm not sure how the turned up eye will preform. I tired a few with a snelled leader on first before tying the fly. Not sure it really matters or not. It was kinda a pain to do this and I was also eating up a lot of Maxima making individual leaders so I only did a few. I'm also a little concerned how short these flies are. The Gamakatsu size 6 are only 3/4" in length and the overall fly is maybe 1.5".

    What do you all think about these flies? How can I make them better? Am I on the right track here? Don't think its too technical just want to dial it in before my trip.


    Thanks!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Kenai Peninsula
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    I like the looks of those flies.Nice Job.
    A friend and his son were using something very similar on the Kasilof the weekend before last and hooked up with a couple of fish and lost some others.
    I was using the Gamakatsu Nautilus circle hooks with just a small bit of yarn in the egg loop.
    they did foul hook one but neither of mine were foul hooked using the circle hooks.
    The 2/0 Nautilus I believe does meet the 3/8 gap requirements where needed. I believe that is my new favorite hook for reds.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    anchorage
    Posts
    106

    Default

    I think they look great. I don't have time to tie my own flies and have been looking for someone that ties them so I can buy some. So if you ever decide to make a ton I will pay. Anyways yeah they look good.

  4. #4
    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alaska - I wasn't born here, but I got here as soon as I could!
    Posts
    3,279

    Default

    Great looking ties!!!! I prefer down turned eyes vs Octopus style, tho maybe it doesn't matter. I was under the impression that when fishing the fly only zone, flies had to be unweighted. If that's the case, I'm not sure the weighted eyes to make the fly sink faster would be legal...good to go if used outside the zone tho

  5. #5
    Member FishGod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Fishing your hole before you get there
    Posts
    1,948

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Great looking ties!!!! I prefer down turned eyes vs Octopus style, tho maybe it doesn't matter. I was under the impression that when fishing the fly only zone, flies had to be unweighted. If that's the case, I'm not sure the weighted eyes to make the fly sink faster would be legal...good to go if used outside the zone tho
    If the fly weighs less than a 1/4 oz it's considered unweighted. Page 67 right-hand side.

    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/re...kenairiver.pdf
    Your bait stinks and your boat is ugly

  6. #6
    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Interior
    Posts
    2,101

    Default

    I've found with sockeye smaller is better. They look great. I have had great luck with smaller hooks finding that they actually typically pierce the entire jaw/mouth and pass through on occasion resulting in good hooks and not many lost.
    Makin fur fins and feathers fly.

  7. #7
    Member 4merguide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Kenai Peninsula, Alaska
    Posts
    9,749

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    I like the looks of those flies.Nice Job.
    A friend and his son were using something very similar on the Kasilof the weekend before last and hooked up with a couple of fish and lost some others.
    I was using the Gamakatsu Nautilus circle hooks with just a small bit of yarn in the egg loop.
    they did foul hook one but neither of mine were foul hooked using the circle hooks.
    The 2/0 Nautilus I believe does meet the 3/8 gap requirements where needed. I believe that is my new favorite hook for reds.
    Chris.....your PM box is full.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    I like the looks of those flies.Nice Job.
    A friend and his son were using something very similar on the Kasilof the weekend before last and hooked up with a couple of fish and lost some others.
    I was using the Gamakatsu Nautilus circle hooks with just a small bit of yarn in the egg loop.
    they did foul hook one but neither of mine were foul hooked using the circle hooks.
    The 2/0 Nautilus I believe does meet the 3/8 gap requirements where needed. I believe that is my new favorite hook for reds.
    I bought some of those too to try it out. But the 2/0 is way too big for the Russian gap requirement. see my picture
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Yes the chain eyes really don't add much weight. This is still a light fly. It is still under 1/4 oz. the bigger hooks with the bar bell eyes are too heavy for the Russian but they are also over the 3/8th gap requirement too.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by c6 batmobile View Post
    I've found with sockeye smaller is better. They look great. I have had great luck with smaller hooks finding that they actually typically pierce the entire jaw/mouth and pass through on occasion resulting in good hooks and not many lost.
    Lim just worried the 6 is too small have you ever tried a size 6 Octo for reds that's about the size of these big river bait hooks. At least they are pretty strong compared to most hooks that size.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    7

    Default

    @wsg7057 I'll tie you a couple. They are super easy!

  12. #12
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Kenai Peninsula
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    I don't fish the russian. But my calipers do say they are just barely too big measuring from the hook point to the shank for the 3/8 requirements.
    Something like .015 too big which isn't much. I had read that they were within the requirements but I guess not quite. Though I could probably bend them so they are close enough.
    Then again I don't fish the russian so it really doesn't bother me.
    Gamakatsu makes a hook specific for the russian. Curious why you didn't choose to use those?
    Good luck and Good fishing.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    7

    Default

    @kasilofchrisn The Gamakatsu Russian just seemed too long for this style. It seems like everything I've read people are wanting short and stout. Sparse and smallish hooks. The traditional coho flies are so bulky and long. I've personally seen sockeye move out of the way from those flies. I really don't know whats the best hook but that was my thinking is anyways. After my trip I will know more from experience. I've never tried anything other than the traditional coho fly. I'm hoping these work in two fold. One they might induce a few grabs because even though they aren't actively eating they remember what a good krill looks like and they might just chomp if its right in their face or it just aggravates them to the point where they bite at it to essentially go away. Second is that they are smaller so they will be less detected when lining and its not a huge hook that's going to snag any and all fins and tails in its path. My goal is to try to get a few to grab but a snag in the jaw also puts dinner on the table.

    What about your hook set on the circle hooks is it any different? I bought a couple packs to try it out as well. I've heard some say you don't set the hook and some say you do. Obviously with circle hooks you usually don't but you also are usually bait fishing and wait for the fish to take and run with the hook. The application of swinging circle hooks for a snag free presentation sounds awesome.

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    7

    Default

    @kasilofchrisn by the way do you know whats the official rule on where you have to measure gap or gape? On a turned up eye do you start at the top of the eye? Can you start at the shank to the point? what about on the circle hooks they have a super deep bend where its wider down in the bend. From my picture with the ruler it looked like about 1/8 too big. What I've been going off is a Russian river coho fly I measured it and sure enough from about the middle of the shank to the point its exactly 3/8ths gape. This old cheap coho fly has been my ruler so to speak.

    The reason why I ask is because with the hook style I'm using I'd love to use the size 4 because the wire is a bit heavier. but its just barley too big but that all depends on how you measure it. Do the fish cops have scales and calipers? We've all seen Alaska state troopers you don't want to mess with the law!

  15. #15
    Member DannerAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Whiskey River
    Posts
    1,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trouthunter4 View Post
    where you have to measure gap
    The answer is pretty straight forward and found on page 7 of the SC regs: singe-hook fly with gap between point and shank of 3/8 inch or less

    "The North wind is cold no matter what direction it's blowing"

  16. #16
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Central Kenai Peninsula
    Posts
    4,887

    Default

    I'm going to try the easy route and likely the one troopers are going to use. That is to get a piece of 3/8" wooden dowel.
    I'll remeasure it myself with digital calipers to be certain it is 3/8".
    Then if it fits between it is a no go. It really was a pain trying to measure with my digital calipers from the little hook point to the shaft with any accuracy.
    After seeing the threads on here about the nautilus circle hooks I decided to try them. I am hooked on them now.
    AS the video in the beginning of that thread shows it is hard to snag them but easy to hook them in the mouth.
    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...hlight=sockeye
    I have no doubt your flies will work I just hope they are strong enough in those small sizes. Just throwing out some additional options.
    Good luck and Good fishing











    '
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  17. #17
    Member DannerAK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Whiskey River
    Posts
    1,161

    Default

    I like the gamakatsu globug hooks. Stout wire, short shank and very sharp. I've found the size 2 to be a very sticky hook for soxs and it is RR legal. It is a good one for tying the likes of Krystal shrimp patterns.

    I've yet to try the nautilus (circle) hooks for anything in freshwater as I tend to only seek willful biters. If I ever again go flossing I'll have to give them a try.
    "The North wind is cold no matter what direction it's blowing"

  18. #18
    Member c6 batmobile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Interior
    Posts
    2,101

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trouthunter4 View Post
    Lim just worried the 6 is too small have you ever tried a size 6 Octo for reds that's about the size of these big river bait hooks. At least they are pretty strong compared to most hooks that size.
    Ive used size 1 or 2, cant remember which is the smaller that meets the requirement, in the stainless or titanium and they work fantastic. About the size of a fingernail and I do very well on them.
    Makin fur fins and feathers fly.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Southcentral AK
    Posts
    90

    Default

    The upright steel post on many fly tying vises is 3/8" which makes it quick and easy to check any hook.

  20. #20
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Aberdeen WA
    Posts
    4,516

    Default

    I tried one of those shrimpy looking "Sockeye Charlie" bonefish looking flies last year. I fished them on a downstream swing, presented "fly first" to eliminate the chance of flossing any fish. The only willing biters it tempted were pinks...






    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •