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Thread: Another dph failure

  1. #1
    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    Default Another dph failure

    At 1600hrs after babying this "c" drive I can't believe it failed! I used only Volvo gear oil and changed oil at 100 or less! I noticed a new frequency to the rear end and decided to pull the boat up and inspect the drive oil. This is what I found after 68 hours after the last oil change! WTH!


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    Oil glitter=no good.


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    What is the average lifespan? The drive is what scared us away from diesels. If figured 700-1000 was the max.

  4. #4
    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chtucker View Post
    What is the average lifespan? The drive is what scared us away from diesels. If figured 700-1000 was the max.
    The older drive lasted 2300hrs with heavy use, the newer DPHC drives supposed to be stronger and last longer and it failed sooner! $15,000 gone in 2 years!


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    Quote Originally Posted by chtucker View Post
    What is the average lifespan? The drive is what scared us away from diesels. If figured 700-1000 was the max.
    Its not the diesels its those drives they hook up to the diesels.

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    You my friend now have a displacement hull... and I am sorry to tell you. I have a friend who has a 45' Maxweld Maxcat that had twin D6370s and DPH drives. After blowing 3 or 4 drives (and always just out of warranty) he decided to run at displacement speeds instead of up on step and he hasn't blown a drive since. It is just a tremendous amount of stress on one drive to be pushing that hull.

    Trade in that Roamer for a different one with twins... equals less stress on the drives. Or make Ocean Sport make you one with a straight shaft or shafts (if you go twin).

    Sobie2

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    It baffles my mind how the west coast guys just keep pouring money out the scuppers buying and building boats with outdrives, i don't care how many of them you line up across the stern its still all junk that is guaranteed to break. For what KC has lost in charter time and paid out in drive costs he could of had a fair portion of a rig with dependable motors and drive trains paid for. A boat was just finished back east(ya a lobstah boat) its a wooden 47' with a big cat diesel) but at the launching party they had 40 people aboard and it only lost a knot or two off the cruise speed. WOT speed was 23.8 knots @ 2100rpm and cruise was 17 @ 1700 & 16 @ 1600. Pretty impressive for a boat that size. Here's some pics of the build
    http://wlb3.smugmug.com/Maine/JBBC/6...-Boa/i-98C26Pb

    Here's another boat that i think would be a great boat for this part of the world
    http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/5041290457.html

    I load 3-4000lbs of fish on my little 29' and she still goes 16knots at 2100rpms @ 8/gals/hr same as empty. It has a 300hp 6068 John Deere with a Twin Disc gear, 1-3/4" shaft and a 24x26 four blade prop. I'm looking at least 10,000 trouble free hours.
    dogfish1.jpg

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    Member jrogers's Avatar
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    Bummer Jeff. I have been wondering how the C's will hold up. I have one on mine. I think I paid more like 10K for it from SHIP, but I am not sure of the price. It might be worth a call to them to see what they cost. The good news is that they are easy to change. Just an hour or two to have one on your boat. I think it is a load issue. Hopefully I am lighter than you at 12K lbs and a shallower V at 14 degrees where I live longer. 1600 hours would be 10 years for me, but that is still not great. I will be interested to hear what it is. If it is a top bearing, which was the issue I had on my first drive, it was about a $1600 repair bill which is a lot better than $15K. I kept my first drive with a fresh rebuild, so if mine fails, I have a ready spare to put on it without a lot of downtime. I think mine is a 1.79 ratio. I am not sure if that is what you are using, but if you are in a pinch send me an Email and we can talk.
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    To counter Steve's 'Why would anyone go with an outdrive' comment, I don't think it is that clear of a decision. In his example boat above, note the length of 47 feet. That is not exactly what I want to trailer to Whittier and Seward from Anchorage. For those that want a trailerable boat, straight shafts are not ideal either. I think typically you flip the engine and run it through a Z drive or similar. You now have a transmission similar to the outdrive again, and due to the shorter distance, the shaft angle is less than ideal, and efficiency is less than a duoprop. The other real option is outboards, which are the popular choice here. I don't think this has been done on a Ocean Sport Roamer due to the weight and amount of power it needs, but I am not sure about this. If I look at my boat, and the fact that twin outboards where the same cost as the outdrive, I ponder whether Steve is right that the diesel and outdrive was a stupid choice. In the 7 seasons and 1000 hours I have run my boat, if my average fuel burn was half of that with outboards, at $3 per gallon I saved around 30K in fuel, which gives me both much greater range and some funds for outdrive repairs. Like most things in boating, the decision is a bundle of compromises.
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    Member Stanly's Avatar
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    I just feel for ya Brother, that truly SUCKS!
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    I'm not really talking about a rec user who puts very little hours on a boat, I'm more referring to commercial or charter boats like Jeff's that have a varying load on them through the season (people come in a lot of sizes) and put on a good number of hours yearly. To my narrow little mind i just can't see any value in outdrives and to a lesser degree outboards all that stuff just ain't made for that type of use, its all toys made to self destruct so they get to sell you another one to start the cycle all over again. Yeah my example was a tad extreme but there are plenty of boats in the 30'-40' that could be used for charter and to a lesser degree rec fishing that have the engine/shaft /prop set up and NONE of them are built with Vdrives, they are another world of problems and you never see them in real commercial operations(as far as i know). I'd think with what Jeff has in that nice Roamer he could of bought another rig w/o a outdrive and avoided a lot of problems. This debate will/can go can forever and to each his own but for me never again will i own a outdrive.
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    lots of potential here, nice power package
    http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/5108811383.html

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    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    My CFO ( wife) and I immediately started making phone calls to the boat builder plus the guys who sell and rebuild drives and started looking for a shaft boat, paying attention to fuel consumption speed and layout of deck. Over the last couple of days the builder and the drive guys called and all pretty much say the C drive failing before the A drive was a fluke. So we are going to give the boat another run with the current setup.


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    Your a glutton for punishment my friend !! I bet none of them offered to go to bat for you( a good customer) with volvo to see if anything could be done about warranty/ out of warranty work on the drive. I'd also bet they will gladly sell you another drive ??
    How would something like this work for day trip charter ?? was asking 75,000 for it.




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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    lots of potential here, nice power package
    http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/5108811383.html
    I noticed on this one that the boat has 700 hours, but the ZF transmission has only 200 hours. That implies that it had some similar problems to what we are talking about here.

    It is good news that the C drives are working better, although it will take some time to see if they are really going to last for the long hours. It is also good that yours has metal in the oil and did not blow up. I imagine that the drive you have needs a bearing or two replaced and would be usable again. One strategy would be to buy a new drive and put it on, and have the current one rebuilt and keep in as a spare. I kept the box from my DPH-C drive, and have my old DPH-A drive in it stored in my garage, with oil in it and ready to go if (when) I have a failure in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by potbuilder View Post
    It baffles my mind how the west coast guys just keep pouring money out the scuppers buying and building boats with outdrives, i don't care how many of them you line up across the stern its still all junk that is guaranteed to break. For what KC has lost in charter time and paid out in drive costs he could of had a fair portion of a rig with dependable motors and drive trains paid for. A boat was just finished back east(ya a lobstah boat) its a wooden 47' with a big cat diesel) but at the launching party they had 40 people aboard and it only lost a knot or two off the cruise speed. WOT speed was 23.8 knots @ 2100rpm and cruise was 17 @ 1700 & 16 @ 1600. Pretty impressive for a boat that size. Here's some pics of the build
    http://wlb3.smugmug.com/Maine/JBBC/6...-Boa/i-98C26Pb

    Here's another boat that i think would be a great boat for this part of the world
    http://maine.craigslist.org/boa/5041290457.html

    I load 3-4000lbs of fish on my little 29' and she still goes 16knots at 2100rpms @ 8/gals/hr same as empty. It has a 300hp 6068 John Deere with a Twin Disc gear, 1-3/4" shaft and a 24x26 four blade prop. I'm looking at least 10,000 trouble free hours.
    Steve, what do you think it would cost to get that 35 duffy to the west coast? I would love to take that up the inside passage and park it in Seward.
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    I got a shipping quote of just less than $7,000 to truck a 38' Munson from Florida to Seattle on a flatbed semi a few months ago.

    Sobie2

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    Quote Originally Posted by tlingitwarrior View Post
    Steve, what do you think it would cost to get that 35 duffy to the west coast? I would love to take that up the inside passage and park it in Seward.
    If you had a good trucking outfit do it, i mean somebody that moves bigger boats all the time and is insured and bonded, not some fly by nite UShip guy i'd bet it would be around 15 grand. One of the top of the line boat movers is Journeys End Marine in Rockland Me if you need a contact number let me know as i wanted them to move my boat if i didn't get a trailer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sobie2 View Post
    I got a shipping quote of just less than $7,000 to truck a 38' Munson from Florida to Seattle on a flatbed semi a few months ago.

    Sobie2
    Did you get that quote from UShip ?? I bet it would of got about 1/2 across and you would have to gone and get it ! I think the going rate is about 4-5 bucks/mile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrogers View Post
    I noticed on this one that the boat has 700 hours, but the ZF transmission has only 200 hours. That implies that it had some similar problems to what we are talking about here.

    It is good news that the C drives are working better, although it will take some time to see if they are really going to last for the long hours. It is also good that yours has metal in the oil and did not blow up. I imagine that the drive you have needs a bearing or two replaced and would be usable again. One strategy would be to buy a new drive and put it on, and have the current one rebuilt and keep in as a spare. I kept the box from my DPH-C drive, and have my old DPH-A drive in it stored in my garage, with oil in it and ready to go if (when) I have a failure in the future.
    The likely reason that gear was replaced is that lobster boats are in and out of gear a million times a day when hauling gear, no where near the problem those toy drives have like spinning bearings/metal in the oil after a few hundred hours running. You'd have to be around the lobster fishery to see how hard the gear is worked and its worked daily almost all year round, they put on more hours in a week than most guys put on in a month. My old lobsterboat a 35' had a GM 6-71 w/a big twin disc gear on it, 10,000 hours on it when i sold it and in that time i NEVER changed the gear oil in it, always did the engine every 2-300 hours and had absolutely no problems with that engine/gear combo. I know there ain't any volvo diesel/outdrives that can say that.

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    one of the best downeast hulls ever built 31' BHM they are tanks and will run comfortably in 6 footers at 15 knots.


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