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Thread: Commercial fisherman rolling chinooks

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    Default Commercial fisherman rolling chinooks

    I just heard from ADF&G that some commercial fisherman are rolling kings out of their nets again this year. That really is fouling things up as the commercial catch data becomes useless. It is lower beach fisherman and of course they think they are keeping the catch low. The cost of doing this is to upper beach fisherman if ADF&G uses the low catches as an indication of a poor late chinook run. So again the 80 miles of ESSN beach is in conflict and individual self interests and disregard for management data comes into play. It serves no purpose to roll kings on the lower beach without some idea if they make it to the river. If they die, which I suspect is the case, then everyone loses.

    Not sure how to deal with this but maybe a regulation is needed that says a fish caught in the gill net must be retained and reported, at least until some data says that these fish are making it to the river.

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    I hope it's just a few bad eggs doing this.

    Here's a suggestion. Since KRSA has a "Release a Hog" program maybe they can offer a thousand bucks for every king turned in by the set netters. Bet they wouldn't be rolling too many kings if each fish was worth that.

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    My kings are selling for a premium price - I wish I had more but I'm not catching many. Harvest numbers are down no doubt, and some are still rolling or not reporting. I don't know what the fix is or if there is one but will not run around in circles wringing my hands because the AFCA folks think we need to explain ourselves further, only to have every genuine effort I make chewed up and spit back at me by the penny crew. Yes, ESSN king harvest numbers are questionable - what would you expect given the situation. At least we're getting good genetics. I would be fine with a law requiring retention of all salmon caught.

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    My kings are selling for a premium price - I wish I had more but I'm not catching many. Harvest numbers are down no doubt, and some are still rolling or not reporting. I don't know what the fix is or if there is one but will not run around in circles wringing my hands because the AFCA folks think we need to explain ourselves further, only to have every genuine effort I make chewed up and spit back at me by the penny crew. Yes, ESSN king harvest numbers are questionable - what would you expect given the situation. At least we're getting good genetics. I would be fine with a law requiring retention of all salmon caught.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    I just heard from ADF&G that some commercial fisherman are rolling kings out of their nets again this year. That really is fouling things up as the commercial catch data becomes useless. It is lower beach fisherman and of course they think they are keeping the catch low. The cost of doing this is to upper beach fisherman if ADF&G uses the low catches as an indication of a poor late chinook run. So again the 80 miles of ESSN beach is in conflict and individual self interests and disregard for management data comes into play. It serves no purpose to roll kings on the lower beach without some idea if they make it to the river. If they die, which I suspect is the case, then everyone loses.

    Not sure how to deal with this but maybe a regulation is needed that says a fish caught in the gill net must be retained and reported, at least until some data says that these fish are making it to the river.
    Nerka: we disagree over much but I am pleased that we agree that rolling Chinook is a bad practice. Several months ago you expressed concern when Smithtb said that he and others he knew were rolling Kings. Thank you! I fully understand the ESSN
    fears. They are somewhat between the rock and the hard place when it comes down to reporting mortality. And most of us know
    that in spite of claims to the contrary, that rolled Chinook are likely to die and sink to the bottom, and not be harvested. Refusing to keep and report these fish costs everybody, especially the ESSN people as it skews the numbers and is likely to make the managers more cautious. I think that the Dept is correct in its claim as I have personally been told by two ESSN that they have engaged in the practice and have been told that others have as well. No names and I would not have mentioned smithtb but for his candid admission on several occasions to doing so. We might not agree on this facet however: I believe that this practice will become germane should the initiative be approved by the Court and will be used widely in any campaign. The ESSN should quickly admit their mistake, denounce the practice and condemn those who continue to engage in it. I know by posting this that some will quickly accuse me of being a member of the "syndicate" or will start complaining about fishing over spawning beds, or anglers not reporting etc etc. I say save your energy ( that is old news) and stick to the point of the thread.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    Nerka: we disagree over much but I am pleased that we agree that rolling Chinook is a bad practice. Several months ago you expressed concern when Smithtb said that he and others he knew were rolling Kings. Thank you! I fully understand the ESSN
    fears. They are somewhat between the rock and the hard place when it comes down to reporting mortality. And most of us know
    that in spite of claims to the contrary, that rolled Chinook are likely to die and sink to the bottom, and not be harvested. Refusing to keep and report these fish costs everybody, especially the ESSN people as it skews the numbers and is likely to make the managers more cautious. I think that the Dept is correct in its claim as I have personally been told by two ESSN that they have engaged in the practice and have been told that others have as well. No names and I would not have mentioned smithtb but for his candid admission on several occasions to doing so. We might not agree on this facet however: I believe that this practice will become germane should the initiative be approved by the Court and will be used widely in any campaign. The ESSN should quickly admit their mistake, denounce the practice and condemn those who continue to engage in it. I know by posting this that some will quickly accuse me of being a member of the "syndicate" or will start complaining about fishing over spawning beds, or anglers not reporting etc etc. I say save your energy ( that is old news) and stick to the point of the thread.
    I rolled several kings last year when "every fish counted". Will not be doing so again. Move on please.

    Quest, Nerka, or ADFG have no clue how few or many ESSN's are rolling Kings or underreporting. One can assume that people are as responsible in this fishery as in any other, so released fish are likely handled with care, and are no different than released fish in any other fishery (save those already counted as spawning escapement inriver thus also accounted for in creel) and underreporting happens the same in this fishery as any other. Rolling dead fish is illegal. You have no clue as to the survival rate of rolled fish.

    I wish this thread hadn't started as it is blowing things out of proportion again. Yes - a few people are rolling kings, and being very vocal about it. Funny - some of the same who were very vocal about new harvest strategies and 29 mesh nets the last few years. They seem to be wringing their hands and spinning in circles reacting to KQuestRSA like I decided not to do. They are hoping for political gain I suppose. By and large, most ESSN's are trying to make a living and selling those $4.00/lb Kings whenever possible. I have people calling me requesting any kings I catch. It seems there is a shortage, and they are in high demand. The local setnetter's association has stressed to ESSN's the importance of our catch data, and encouraged everyone to sell their Kings.

    Quest, has it occurred to you that many ESSN's hung new 29 mesh "King conservation gear" after this gear was pushed into regulation by KRSA? Couldn't that affect king harvest? I changed the majority of my gear over only to find that this year the fish are running deep... I have caught thousands of Sockeye, a handful of Jacks and 2 real Kings so far this year - one 35# and one 22#. Both died of a ripped gill, were recorded on a fish ticket, and contributed to our local economy.

    Bottom line - the Dark Side doesn't care if the gear change helped. It could have been 100% effective and our King harvest 0 and they would still blame the results on ESSN's lack of ethics. And let's face it - our data on kings is shaky all over thanks to this conflict. If you really were a drifter I would ask you how or why drifter's king harvest stats dropped drastically in the mid - 80's. I call them "Whatkings" That's not to say that the info inriver is any better or more accurate...

    Get over it. There are more Kings this year than last. Lots of fishing opportunity everywhere. The sun is shining. Put on your Vader mask and go catch some!

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    tbsmith - just to set the record straight about 50% of the fisherman last year on one period rolled their kings by fisherman's own statements. So this is not overblown at all. It is a real concern to the point as you pointed out that KPFA is trying to get people not to do this. Not sure what this year people are doing but that is not the point. If one year or period is compromised the whole data set is compromised. If 50% are doing in on one period but not others there is no way to know what the catch data means. So the best option is to require all fish caught in a gill net to be reported.

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    Nerka:

    I think what you may be citing is called anecdotal evidence, and is generally considered by the regulators to be interesting but not controlling.
    Self-reported data about fishing or other activity is always subject to a raft of 'yeah-buts.' We tend to assume the the 'yeah-buts' are sort of consistent over time, It may be a flawed assumption, but it is either accept some possibility of error or dismiss the whole data set. The general trend is to assume the proportion of fabricators, prevaricators, fabulists and other data miscreants is sort of stable over time, and go from there. I agree the data is not pristine, is subject to variation from motives unknown, and is not perfect, but absent a definitive demonstration of bias, it remains the best available. Expect to be quoted on TV as "Biologist states half of setnetters illegally rolling dead kings".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    tbsmith - just to set the record straight about 50% of the fisherman last year on one period rolled their kings by fisherman's own statements. So this is not overblown at all. It is a real concern to the point as you pointed out that KPFA is trying to get people not to do this. Not sure what this year people are doing but that is not the point. If one year or period is compromised the whole data set is compromised. If 50% are doing in on one period but not others there is no way to know what the catch data means. So the best option is to require all fish caught in a gill net to be reported.
    That was probably during the 29 mesh restrictions last year - when myself and others who normally don't, decided to roll kings. Even though it was completely unproven gear modification forced upon us, I wanted shallow mesh to work, so why not help it? Imagine if the ESSN king harvest went to 0!? Perhaps it was foolish, but a guy can dream, right?

    Don't know who or how the 50% was figured, but it was at best a WAG. Requiring all fish to be reported is fine but it will do absolutely nothing because the anti-setnet crowd will still call us liars, AND THEY TALK REALLY LOUD. No one will believe the data because they will cast doubt just as they are doing now. Even if by some miracle we got proven, perfect reporting of harvest, the next thread would be "dropout mortality", and we'd be running around in circles wringing our hands trying to figure out what to do about it. Next thing some setnetter will be strapping GoPros to his nets trying to prove dropout rates are lower than some number Bfish and Delaney pull from the thin Colorado air.

    The dataset has been compromised for years Nerka - a casualty of this stupid fish fight. It it compromised everywhere - ESSN, Drifters, Inriver, PU, even escapement numbers are suspect - and all these doubts are made worse by this fight and the nature of it. ADFG is not using ESSN King harvest data as they once did - nor should they. Those who have decided to roll Kings have not chosen to do so lightly given the cost, and likely will not be swayed, nor can I really blame them given the circumstances. Bringing attention to this issue now does nothing more than stir the pot. Don't feed Darth's fire. If you believe in the solution, propose the change in regulation. I will support it. Of course, someone will now propose it, market it to the media, and will likely try to require everything caught to be reported, making criminals out of fishermen who throw back so much as a flounder or jellyfish without writing it down. That's how the dark side works, and it really sucks trying to accomplish anything positive in their presence.

    I'm done talking about dropouts, rollouts, or any other completely unquantifiable boogeyman relative to my walls of death. Time to get some sleep. Thanks to KRSA's windows I get to set in the middle of a screamer tomorrow.

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    TeeJay the rolling of chinook has not been consistent over time and the data on this is more than anecdotal - it just cannot be made public because the meetings and reporting to ADF&G would compromise individuals in the UCI fish wars. Also it is illegal to release catch data to the public from a single permit holder. Tbsmith is correct on that.

    Tbsmith - my posting of this is not to stir any pot. It is to try and bring peer pressure on those who are doing it to stop it. It is hurting your industry and that has been documented from the last couple of years. When a high king count in the ESSN harvest would have helped those arguing for more fishing time on sockeye the low chinook count reported did just the opposite. Took their position out of play. Remember we are talking about a few hundred chinook in a forecast that kept the ESSN from fishing. I understand most people do not understand how ADF&G manages the fishery but I can tell you low chinook harvest is not what a commercial fisherman should want. You made a decision based on political reasons to roll kings. That is fine but there was a cost to your fishery. Frankly I posted this in the hope commercial fisherman would ban together and put a stop to it.

    I may put in a regulation change but it really is not my responsibility it is yours as a professional fisherman. It is you and your fellow fisherman who should take the lead to clean up this practice as it is not scientifically sound. I keep hearing commercial fisherman argue for biological management but then some turn around and do just the opposite and make political decisions. This is one of them. So I am not stirring the pot for the sake of causing trouble but to help put in perspective what this practice does. Also, Questairtoo is correct - you cannot hide this from the upcoming set net ban discussion and should get out in front of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    TeeJay the rolling of chinook has not been consistent over time and the data on this is more than anecdotal - it just cannot be made public because the meetings and reporting to ADF&G would compromise individuals in the UCI fish wars. Also it is illegal to release catch data to the public from a single permit holder. Tbsmith is correct on that.

    Tbsmith - my posting of this is not to stir any pot. It is to try and bring peer pressure on those who are doing it to stop it. It is hurting your industry and that has been documented from the last couple of years. When a high king count in the ESSN harvest would have helped those arguing for more fishing time on sockeye the low chinook count reported did just the opposite. Took their position out of play. Remember we are talking about a few hundred chinook in a forecast that kept the ESSN from fishing. I understand most people do not understand how ADF&G manages the fishery but I can tell you low chinook harvest is not what a commercial fisherman should want. You made a decision based on political reasons to roll kings. That is fine but there was a cost to your fishery. Frankly I posted this in the hope commercial fisherman would ban together and put a stop to it.

    I may put in a regulation change but it really is not my responsibility it is yours as a professional fisherman. It is you and your fellow fisherman who should take the lead to clean up this practice as it is not scientifically sound. I keep hearing commercial fisherman argue for biological management but then some turn around and do just the opposite and make political decisions. This is one of them. So I am not stirring the pot for the sake of causing trouble but to help put in perspective what this practice does. Also, Questairtoo is correct - you cannot hide this from the upcoming set net ban discussion and should get out in front of it.
    I have no intentions of engaging in any discussion with the setnet ban folks. You are right though, this will be a point of their "discussion" regardless of what you, I, or anyone else does to solve the issue. They will not accept that ESSN's are anything other than greedy, violent outlaws. There is no getting out in front of people who distort the truth - it is impossible as their story will simply evolve. I will not waste my time worrying over defense of their inevitable distortions and lies.

    My responsibility? I am not rolling any more kings than you. You are the one who says this resource belongs to everyone - even non-consumptive users. Why is the burden on me to straighten out this issue you perceive as a major problem? If ADFG sees it as an issue, who better to address it than them, the ones collecting the data and enforcing the laws? I spent my time last go-round trying to improve reporting means and methods - it was a giant waste of time because KRSA and ADFG did not approve.

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    I would be in for rolling a king! Where would one get Zig_Zag papers big enough to do so?? Also it would be very hard to light it after you rolled it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    I rolled several kings last year when "every fish counted". Will not be doing so again. Move on please.

    Quest, Nerka, or ADFG have no clue how few or many ESSN's are rolling Kings or underreporting. One can assume that people are as responsible in this fishery as in any other, so released fish are likely handled with care, and are no different than released fish in any other fishery (save those already counted as spawning escapement inriver thus also accounted for in creel) and underreporting happens the same in this fishery as any other. Rolling dead fish is illegal. You have no clue as to the survival rate of rolled fish.

    I wish this thread hadn't started as it is blowing things out of proportion again. Yes - a few people are rolling kings, and being very vocal about it. Funny - some of the same who were very vocal about new harvest strategies and 29 mesh nets the last few years. They seem to be wringing their hands and spinning in circles reacting to KQuestRSA like I decided not to do. They are hoping for political gain I suppose. By and large, most ESSN's are trying to make a living and selling those $4.00/lb Kings whenever possible. I have people calling me requesting any kings I catch. It seems there is a shortage, and they are in high demand. The local setnetter's association has stressed to ESSN's the importance of our catch data, and encouraged everyone to sell their Kings.

    Quest, has it occurred to you that many ESSN's hung new 29 mesh "King conservation gear" after this gear was pushed into regulation by KRSA? Couldn't that affect king harvest? I changed the majority of my gear over only to find that this year the fish are running deep... I have caught thousands of Sockeye, a handful of Jacks and 2 real Kings so far this year - one 35# and one 22#. Both died of a ripped gill, were recorded on a fish ticket, and contributed to our local economy.

    Bottom line - the Dark Side doesn't care if the gear change helped. It could have been 100% effective and our King harvest 0 and they would still blame the results on ESSN's lack of ethics. And let's face it - our data on kings is shaky all over thanks to this conflict. If you really were a drifter I would ask you how or why drifter's king harvest stats dropped drastically in the mid - 80's. I call them "Whatkings" That's not to say that the info inriver is any better or more accurate...

    Get over it. There are more Kings this year than last. Lots of fishing opportunity everywhere. The sun is shining. Put on your Vader mask and go catch some!
    This thread raises an important subject that you seem very uncomfortable with. Your attempts to raise distractions show how sensitive
    you are. I certainly believe you when you say you wish the thread had never been started. Nerka is correct in his suggestion that "you" should take the lead and responsibility for submitting a proposed regulation banning the practice. It would give much needed credibility to the ESSN organization. You are known for taking on any subject that adversely impacts in river users. Instead of running comparisons to other fisheries Why not show some professionalism and courage and advance a solution to what is seen as a serious problem? After all you were among the first to admit you were engaging in this improper and unethical practice. It would be more comfortable to you for this subject to go away. But it won't. So show some leadership instead of diverting the subject to accusations of other advocacy groups. Rolling Kings "when every King counts" is not the same as counting every King caught. Surely you agree with that premise. So, instead of telling people to move, maybe you should move forward and help with a solution.

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    tbsmith, I fully understand your frustration. ADF&G should take the lead in a number of areas but we know that will not happen. I could do it as well. But I think if the industry did it they could take credit for fixing a few things in their fishery. While I would not engage the set net ban people either - they are not ethical - but I would engage the general public on this and have a record showing that the industry is responsible, trying to work with ADF&G, and not ethically challenged like the opposition. I know sometimes UCI commercial fisherman feel the world is always coming down on them but you actually have lots of support - just want you to keep that support. Sometimes being a victim and falling into that trap with comments can backfire. Just trying to help - maybe it is misplaced but some of us want a viable commercial fishery.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    This thread raises an important subject that you seem very uncomfortable with. Your attempts to raise distractions show how sensitive
    you are.
    Yes, your lack of honesty in pretending you desire a solution to this issue makes me very uncomfortable. ADFG employees flagging it as an issue while taking no real steps to identify or mitigate the practice despite them being in a better position than myself to do so also makes me uncomfortable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    Nerka is correct in his suggestion that "you" should take the lead and responsibility for submitting a proposed regulation banning the practice. It would give much needed credibility to the ESSN organization. You are known for taking on any subject that adversely impacts in river users.
    I'll chalk this up on the list of things y'all have suggested I/we should do to give ourselves more credibility. Name one of your suggestions that has helped us in the long term.

    I am not known for "taking on any subject that adversely impacts in river users". I am one. I was painted that way on this forum by the leader of the guide organization and some other sympathetic guides (all of whom support the setnet ban) because they do not like me. They have since stopped posting because their positions cannot withstand debate, and they feel victimized. Actually, I worked pretty closely with some sport fishermen at the last BOF go-round, and myself and the fishing organization I am involved with has more in common and a better relationship with sportfishing organizations like the Kenai Area Fishermen's Coalition and Trout Unlimited than either KRSA or the Kenai River Professional Guide's Association. It's actually kind of sad when you think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    Instead of running comparisons to other fisheries Why not show some professionalism and courage and advance a solution to what is seen as a serious problem? After all you were among the first to admit you were engaging in this improper and unethical practice. It would be more comfortable to you for this subject to go away. But it won't. So show some leadership instead of diverting the subject to accusations of other advocacy groups. Rolling Kings "when every King counts" is not the same as counting every King caught. Surely you agree with that premise. So, instead of telling people to move, maybe you should move forward and help with a solution.
    The solution is for you and your crew to stop beating ESSN's over the head for the Kings that they catch. Their interception of these fish by all measures is quite low and proven to be completely sustainable, leaving room for an unrestricted inriver fishery on any healthy run. These fish are considered premium and are in high demand, and none would be wasted if the political cost was not so high. You are in a perfect position to change that. Oh, wait, I forgot - you are merely an enlightened drifter, not someone from the Dark Lord's inner circle.

    Yeah, I went with a Star Wars theme this week. As soon as you tell me what you want me to call your group, I'll go with it

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    tbsmith, I fully understand your frustration. ADF&G should take the lead in a number of areas but we know that will not happen. I could do it as well. But I think if the industry did it they could take credit for fixing a few things in their fishery. While I would not engage the set net ban people either - they are not ethical - but I would engage the general public on this and have a record showing that the industry is responsible, trying to work with ADF&G, and not ethically challenged like the opposition. I know sometimes UCI commercial fisherman feel the world is always coming down on them but you actually have lots of support - just want you to keep that support. Sometimes being a victim and falling into that trap with comments can backfire. Just trying to help - maybe it is misplaced but some of us want a viable commercial fishery.
    Than you for the comment Nerka. I am not the person to take the lead on this supposed issue. I do not believe the 50% figure - not even close! ADFG asked ESSN fishermen last year at our (packed) annual meeting who was rolling kings, and Brent Johnson was the only person who raised his hand. He is by far the loudest about it. My suggestion is to ask him what he thinks the solution is since he is very reasonable but has a mind of his own and will not likely change it. I do agree that this issue needs attention, but I am not engaging. Having a blast this summer with my boys and extended family - hit the river yesterday and back to the inlet today. No time for fish fight politics. Have at it boys and girls I'm out fishing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Yes, your lack of honesty in pretending you desire a solution to this issue makes me very uncomfortable. ADFG employees flagging it as an issue while taking no real steps to identify or mitigate the practice despite them being in a better position than myself to do so also makes me uncomfortable.

    there you go again calling people a liar.



    I'll chalk this up on the list of things y'all have suggested I/we should do to give ourselves more credibility. Name one of your suggestions that has helped us in the long term.

    I am not known for "taking on any subject that adversely impacts in river users". I am one. I was painted that way on this forum by the leader of the guide organization and some other sympathetic guides (all of whom support the setnet ban) because they do not like me. They have since stopped posting because their positions cannot withstand debate, and they feel victimized. Actually, I worked pretty closely with some sport fishermen at the last BOF go-round, and myself and the fishing organization I am involved with has more in common and a better relationship with sportfishing organizations like the Kenai Area Fishermen's Coalition and Trout Unlimited than either KRSA or the Kenai River Professional Guide's Association. It's actually kind of sad when you think about it.

    Can't imagine people not liking you.

    The solution is for you and your crew to stop beating ESSN's over the head for the Kings that they catch. Their interception of these fish by all measures is quite low and proven to be completely sustainable, leaving room for an unrestricted inriver fishery on any healthy run. These fish are considered premium and are in high demand, and none would be wasted if the political cost was not so high. You are in a perfect position to change that. Oh, wait, I forgot - you are merely an enlightened drifter, not someone from the Dark Lord's inner circle.

    you have no clue who I am. I'm no member of a crew, syndicate, inner circle, or dark side. You always revert to insults instead of addressing " facts". Now that is sad.

    Yeah, I went with a Star Wars theme this week. As soon as you tell me what you want me to call your group, I'll go with it



    Than you for the comment Nerka. I am not the person to take the lead on this supposed issue. I do not believe the 50% figure - not even close! ADFG asked ESSN fishermen last year at our (packed) annual meeting who was rolling kings, and Brent Johnson was the only person who raised his hand. He is by far the loudest about it. My suggestion is to ask him what he thinks the solution is since he is very reasonable but has a mind of his own and will not likely change it. I do agree that this issue needs attention, but I am not engaging. Having a blast this summer with my boys and extended family - hit the river yesterday and back to the inlet today. No time for fish fight politics. Have at it boys and girls I'm out fishing.
    No sense engaging in a debate you are losing and cannot win. Are young claiming to be a victim? Boy, there is not a dry eye in the crowd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    No sense engaging in a debate you are losing and cannot win. Are young claiming to be a victim? Boy, there is not a dry eye in the crowd.
    You are correct sir. I cannot win if you blame me for every problem you perceive in every fishery I participate in. I wish that every setnetter would put their kings on a fish ticket as I am doing. I also wish you were more honest about who you are and your intentions. I could not be more forthcoming about my actions, or more sincere when I say that I will support a genuine attempt to mitigate this practice you perceive as a major issue.

    I hope there are no dry eyes today. A little rain is a good thing, and we should all be out in it enjoying our short summer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    You are correct sir. I cannot win if you blame me for every problem you perceive in every fishery I participate in. I wish that every setnetter would put their kings on a fish ticket as I am doing. I also wish you were more honest about who you are and your intentions. I could not be more forthcoming about my actions, or more sincere when I say that I will support a genuine attempt to mitigate this practice you perceive as a major issue.

    I hope there are no dry eyes today. A little rain is a good thing, and we should all be out in it enjoying our short summer.
    Not sure I inow what you mean when you say you will support a "genuine" effort to "mitigate" King rolling. Those terms seem to allow many interpretations of your intent. Are you willing to support a "stop" to this practice? And who I am has nothing to do with this issue and you know it. The practice is unacceptable regardless of who you believe I am. If you persist in claiming I am part of the syndicate, from the dark side, a liar, and corrupt crew member then I will consider re- naming you to "King Roller."Might be surprised how that might catch on. I kept your earlier posts where you brought up the subject. They paint a much different picture of your actions than your claims recently. So consider going a bit easier on your name calling pre occupation with who I am and stick with issues and I will consider forgetting a new handle for you. King Roller! Now that's pretty funny. And factual!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Questairtoo View Post
    Not sure I inow what you mean when you say you will support a "genuine" effort to "mitigate" King rolling. Those terms seem to allow many interpretations of your intent. Are you willing to support a "stop" to this practice? And who I am has nothing to do with this issue and you know it. The practice is unacceptable regardless of who you believe I am. If you persist in claiming I am part of the syndicate, from the dark side, a liar, and corrupt crew member then I will consider re- naming you to "King Roller."Might be surprised how that might catch on. I kept your earlier posts where you brought up the subject. They paint a much different picture of your actions than your claims recently. So consider going a bit easier on your name calling pre occupation with who I am and stick with issues and I will consider forgetting a new handle for you. King Roller! Now that's pretty funny. And factual!
    What I meant was if you really try to help solve a problem I will support you but we all know your endgame is a "closed" sign on my business so you can go pound sand.

    Sadly, they haven't called me "King roller" since college. I've probably lost my touch by now. Call me whatever you want, although it takes one to know one and you are obviously smoking something. Ha. Ha. Ha.

    Who you are is only relevant since you claim I am responsible for finding a solution to your concerns, caused by others in my fishery. Hardly fair since you don't have the courage to be truthful about your associations. You are obviously closely tied to KRSA - likely a board member, employee, or beneficiary of that organization. Of course I cannot prove that and you will continue to deny it so I am at a distinct disadvantage due to my candidness and your lack of courage. Oh well.

    You don't need to "keep" my past posts. Anyone can look them up. I could care less. Threats like yours are only frightful to people who can't keep track of all the lies they tell.

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    You can call us King Killers. You can call us King Rollers. You can call us criminals, commies, or con-artists. Just don't call us unpatriotic.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Happy 4th everyone!

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