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Thread: New Trolling Plug

  1. #1

    Default New Trolling Plug

    New to me anyway!

    This spring we've been playing with the King Kandy Cut Plug Herring from the Point Wilson Dart folks. I'm sincerely impressed. I didn't think I'd ever say this, but they may be even better than the real thing. Side by side, they also beat the pants off of Brads cut plugs. Sure we caught kings on the Brads.... But only if it wasn't riding beside a King Candy. And the King Candy mostly caught fish better when fished alongside a real cut plug. The real cut plug could keep up if it was cut and rigged perfectly, but the slightest tail flip put it out of action if there was a King Candy back there too. We troll a lot at low speeds, and the Cut Plug keeps right on working. Just fine at higher speeds, too.

    Couple of other things we've learned.

    The King Kandy Whole Herring (same web page) works better than the Cut Plug if the herring are running large, but you have to troll it at around 3mph or higher to get the spin right. AND shake all the air out of it, as it says in the package directions. It's not so good at lower speeds, and just about useless below 2mph.

    The King Kandy Candlefish (same web page) is the best needlefish lure we've ever seen. Not as effective as the Cut Plug so far, but getting better and better as our herring numbers are dropping and needlefish numbers are rising. You can troll this one really slow and it keeps on spinning. And catching fish. Haven't tried it fast, but the real needlefish aren't fast either.

    I have no stake in the Point Wilson Dart company. But I've sure got a stake in catching fish. It will be interesting to see if this trend holds out over the summer, but so far I'm really liking what I'm seeing. Kinda neat to get a plug for about the same price as a tray of herring, but lasts a lot longer. Best of all, if you miss a strike, there's no need to real in. If you're getting mobbed by cod and pollack, you also don't have to rebait.

  2. #2
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    Did you have a favorite color ?? Thanks for the report !!!!

  3. #3
    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    I love this lure and put to the test this weekend in Homer. Caught 2 ofour kings on the pt wilson. Fished the cut plug and whole herrjng, as well as one of the brads. The cut plug got two, no hits on whole herring. Interesting as soon as I put down a hootchie we got a nice 25lb king. I am sold, and I was 100% a brads guy.
    In 1492 Native Americans discovered Columbus lost at sea
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  4. #4

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    Yeah, Tlingitwarrior. I was kind of a Brad's guy too, but they have serious competition now.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigfoot View Post
    Did you have a favorite color ?? Thanks for the report !!!!
    I've only worked with three colors, and only in water less than 30', so the answer likely is completely different for other colors, whether deep or shallow.

    Any overcast at all, as well as early or late in the day with no sun on the water, it was cop car all the way. But let the light come up and it was black chrome all the way. Haven't caught a thing on the half and half, but I'm betting it would be super down deep. Next up to try is the green chrome. Dunno why I didn't buy any in the first place, but that could well be the best all around color for sunny and cloudy. We sure get a lot of kings on other green stuff.

  5. #5
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    Brownbear,

    How long are the these lures? I am particularly interested in the candlefish - if it is big enough. The needlefish in most of the kings I catch are pretty big; often 5" - 6". I think it would be a waste of time to be dragging something much smaller that that.


    Thanks,


    Big_E

  6. #6

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    The whole herring are 5 1/2", about like a blue tray with the very tail cut off. You don't really see the tail in the water, so I'll call them blue tray size.

    The cut plug are 4 1/4" long, again like a blue tray cut plug with the black tail part cut off.

    The needlefish are 4 1/2" long measured the shortest distance across the inside of the bend. The bend is so sharp, I bet they're right at the 5" you're looking for to hit the bottom end of your range. Every once in a while we run across some schools of really big needlefish, and they're definitely smaller that those. I'm going to call it a pretty good average size.

    What about the giant needlefish we see now and then? Let your mind chew on these for a little while. Plenty heavy for casting with spinning rods, and we've scored well with them a couple of times when the kings were crashing needlefish schools right up among the rocks. I've found it best to clip the wiggle tail off altogether. They drop better between rod lifts, and for some reason just seem to catch better. I've missed a few strikes and considered adding an assist hook, but haven't got there yet. I'd be sure add an assist for trolling. Dunno of any better alternative for big needlefish and trolling.

  7. #7
    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    The green chrome worked for me. I do love the cop car, that color scheme was the most effective brads lure for me.
    In 1492 Native Americans discovered Columbus lost at sea
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    The whole herring are 5 1/2", about like a blue tray with the very tail cut off. You don't really see the tail in the water, so I'll call them blue tray size.

    The cut plug are 4 1/4" long, again like a blue tray cut plug with the black tail part cut off.

    The needlefish are 4 1/2" long measured the shortest distance across the inside of the bend. The bend is so sharp, I bet they're right at the 5" you're looking for to hit the bottom end of your range. Every once in a while we run across some schools of really big needlefish, and they're definitely smaller that those. I'm going to call it a pretty good average size.

    What about the giant needlefish we see now and then? Let your mind chew on these for a little while. Plenty heavy for casting with spinning rods, and we've scored well with them a couple of times when the kings were crashing needlefish schools right up among the rocks. I've found it best to clip the wiggle tail off altogether. They drop better between rod lifts, and for some reason just seem to catch better. I've missed a few strikes and considered adding an assist hook, but haven't got there yet. I'd be sure add an assist for trolling. Dunno of any better alternative for big needlefish and trolling.
    Thanks for that. Just sent in an order for the holographic eels. I'll report back at the end of June.

    Big_E

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by vaaler View Post
    I'll report back at the end of June.
    Thanks! Looking forward to it. So much to learn, so little time. Get all of us working together, and there are many days when I'd swear the kings are still smarter.

  10. #10
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    I would like to know, are you guys trolling these Kind Kandy lures behind a flasher not and if so what type of flasher. 11 inch one that sawys back an forth or moves in a circle, or some other type? Also what's the length of the leader your finding that works the best?

    Thanks

  11. #11

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    I've tried them with and without flashers, depending really on whether or not I think a flasher is needed at the time. I prefer the 11" flasher to the smaller herring dodgers, so I haven't tried those with them yet. Because we do a lot of shallow water work, I use metal flashers almost exclusively. The various plastics have a nasty habit of sailing up to the surface and staying there any time you get them too close to the top. Dunno about deep use, but the King Candy cut plugs sure perform with and without the flashers up where I'm trolling, whether about 30' down in deep water or half way between top and bottom when I'm up shallow. Only time we get deeper than about 30' of water is on the outside of turns when I move away from shore before turning right back in again. We zigzag into and out of the shallows like a drunken sailor. Truth be known, we mostly zigzag out in deep water too!

    I've been using "stock" length on the leaders, just like they come out of the box. Frankly the leaders are a little lighter than my usual choice, but I haven't got around to changing them out, or trying longer or shorter for that matter.

    Hope that answers for you....

    Oh, you might be wondering how I decide whether to use flashers or not. I just put flashers on one side of the boat and not on the other. Whichever gets the first fish, I change the other side to match.

  12. #12
    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    Swarm flashers as slave on the downrigger balls. Set the ball down 2 feet, then hook line to the cable with nothing but the lure.
    In 1492 Native Americans discovered Columbus lost at sea
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  13. #13

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    Good point! I have the Swarms and like them, but haven't got around to using them with the King Kandy yet.

  14. #14
    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    I missed your statement in your original post. And I agree 100% with it. Lures outfish herring as you get more fish time with them. Missed strike no problem, just keep it down there. I havent trolled with herring in 6-7 years. Still mootch with them, but have to believe there is a better setup for that. Headed down to Craig in a few weeks and going to experiment with mootching these lures as well as some spoons.
    In 1492 Native Americans discovered Columbus lost at sea
    _________________________________________________

    If I come across as an arrogant, know-it-all jerk, it's because I am

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by tlingitwarrior View Post
    I missed your statement in your original post. And I agree 100% with it. Lures outfish herring as you get more fish time with them. Missed strike no problem, just keep it down there. I havent trolled with herring in 6-7 years. Still mootch with them, but have to believe there is a better setup for that. Headed down to Craig in a few weeks and going to experiment with mootching these lures as well as some spoons.
    Keep us posted on the mooching! I was planning to try the KKs for mooching because it works so well with Brads, but mooching doesn't warm up in another couple of weeks. I've used hoochies a bunch (sweetened with herring), but my experiments with spoons were marginal. Those I had on hand were too heavy and kinda futile with a weight, though fine "jigged" by themselves.

    One mooching stunt I've been "holding back" a few years is worth passing along as thanks for your feedback:

    Have you tried chumming while mooching? I'm not talking loose chum, rather a chum bag of chopped herring clipped to your downrigger ball and lowered to the depth of the kings (even deadlier for silvers). I've only tried it anchored, but with a little current running it usually draws in swarms of fish. I won't do it with cod, rockfish or pollack around, and guess the same would be true for dogfish, for obvious reasons.

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    Is there any retailers where the Swarm flashers can be purchased or do you have to order them online? Most of my fishing is out of Homer, and I'll go either to the bluffs or PT. Pogi and fishing 70' of water where everyone is, Plus I'm mostly fishing by myself due to the days I'm off and all my friends are married, but thats a different topic for a different thread lol.

  17. #17
    Member kodiakbound's Avatar
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    Thanks BrownBear......that was a triple digit website visit.....

    My wife isn't going to let us play together if I keep listening to you

    Can't wait to give them a try!
    Experience is a hard teacher because you get the test first and the lesson afterwards.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by RadFisher View Post
    Is there any retailers where the Swarm flashers can be purchased or do you have to order them online?
    I know of three that are getting set up for retailing them next year, but no one else that I know about right now. They're super fast on delivery when you order, so that helps.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakbound View Post
    Thanks BrownBear......that was a triple digit website visit.....

    My wife isn't going to let us play together if I keep listening to you

    Can't wait to give them a try!
    She hasn't seen anything yet!

    Just don't let her compare notes with my wife, or you and I will both be in the dog house.

    Smacking them really good right now, but across the way from where we've crossed paths before. We've released over 20 in the last week, and we didn't get any of them trolling! I take that back. We picked up two trolling with the fly rods, but everything else has been casting jigs or flies.

  20. #20
    Member kodiakbound's Avatar
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    Nice.....one of these days you'll see me out there. Probably just about the time things slow down
    Experience is a hard teacher because you get the test first and the lesson afterwards.

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