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Thread: My new wildcat: .410 OM

  1. #1
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Default My new wildcat: .410 OM

    Hi folks, I picked up a brand new in box (1984) Browning 1895. Miroku Japan, NO TANG SAFETY. It was chambered in 30-06, which is the most prestigous, most popular, annnnnnnnnd most boring dmn cartridge on the face of the planet. It's so boring, it's like corn flakes for the rest of your life. I almost turned the rifle into a toilet plunger or threw it away. To try and make this rifle interesting, like it should be, I sent it off. The cartridge that the rifle is going to be chambered for is VERY simple, no stuffing crayons in a flippin brass case with gun powder to resize cases, or any other outrageous processes for fire forming (400 whelen). No over-priced, horn-tootin madness for proprietary brass, ect(.411 hawk).


    Here's the simplicity:

    Neck up a 9.3x62 case to accept a .410 bullet. The ole 9.3 case is literally an improved case from the start with drastically less case taper than the 30-06 case. The dummy rounds have a nice little shoulder, just like the 400 whelen did when cylindrical brass was readily available to resize, back in the day. In this case, a newly available .410 350 grain swift A-frame. I suspect the .410 a-frames won't be produced for long, so I bought a large amount of em. Bullet selection isn't great, but oh well, such is life. Might be able to swage down .411 bulllets for more selection.

    After reading some more Elmer Keith, I named it like Elmer would. Citing the last name of those involved, for example: .333 OKH.

    I'll update yall when it comes back from the gunsmith. should be one week. anyhow, I won't be posting much, got boats I'm building, but I will post a picture of a large game animal taken with it...........I alllllways do

    oh yeah.....barrel getting chopped down to 21 inches. should be 7 lbs even with peep sight. You aint lived till you've shucked a flipping 1895. Every-time I do, hair starts growing on my chest.............. annnnnnnnd my entire body, annnnnnnd i start to howl at the moon.

  2. #2
    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Mainer that should be a fun project and hopefully you don't blow yourself up!
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    After reading some more Elmer Keith, I named it like Elmer would. Citing the last name of those involved, for example: .333 OKH.
    That sounds like the perfect genesis to me, especially in an 1895. Once upon a time I put a lot of rounds through an original in 405, and got real affectionate with it. Still miss it, even with the crescent butt. I suspect you'll be even more than I could if yours has a shotgun butt. There was a definite "ceiling" on my loads inspired by the crescent rather than the loading table!

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    Awesome idea and project.

    You'll have to do a show and tell at the range.

  5. #5

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    Mainer, what kind of numbers are you expecting?

    I know you are a big bullet at moderate speed fan(me to). Sounds interesting to me. I'm thinking that if you get that big 350 grain slug plodding along at anything around 2200 ftps or so you'll have a winner. You should be able to shoot some fast burning powder in that Rascal.

    Keep us posted!

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    I talked to my gunsmith today. The .410 OM is a success. It cycles and chambers to perfection. He's gonna make up some test rounds with 3031 powder I believe, and head out to have some fun I suppose. Rifle should be in my hands by the end of the week. I may try some reloader 10x, because that is what I have on hand. I'm thinking reloader 10x should be an optimal powder for that particular bullet weight and near-straightwall case. It's gonna be nice, just necking up cheap privi 9.3x62 cases (I have tons), and softening up my shoulder. This rifle has a straight metal buttplate (no crescent), so that is getting replaced with a pacmyer recoil pad.

    I'd like to see 2300-2350 fps from the 21" barrel. It was exactly 8 lbs with the 24 in barrel, so with the barrel lopped off 3 inches, and so much meat taken out of what's left, it should be right at 7lbs. It'll be every bit as handy as a model 94 winchester, but with some serious bite. I have NEVER fired an 1895, will be pretty weird doing so, for the first time, with my wildcat creation.

    Please keep in mind, I created this to SHARE with others. I'm not going to get some stupid patent on the case dimensions like some others. My gunsmith is a workin man's kinda smith, so it won't cost a feller no more than $250 for an old 30-06 to be done up. Git you some ultra cheap 9.3x62 privi brass.....and have you ah serious big bore.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    ...and have you ah serious big bore.
    Oh yeah. I'm pretty pleased with my existing array of levers, but I have this orphan bolt rifle sitting there needing a new role in life.

    I'll be interested in your reaction to the recoil with the 1895 stock layout and a 350 grain bullet at 2350.

    One of my 375's is light (7#, too) with its open sights and skinny barrel. Flat cleans my clock with 300 grain factory loads. I literally get a brief flash of double vision when I crank off three fast shots offhand. Worse at the bench. I put a 25# bag of shot between me and it at the bench, as a matter of fact, but do about 99% of my shooting offhand with it, and with 270's. Cleans my clock like I said, but it's still my favorite carry gun.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    ...Flat cleans my clock with 300 grain factory loads. I literally get a brief flash of double vision when I crank off three fast shots offhand.
    Beware a detached retina, or worse. A clean clock isn't necessarily something a guy want's to strive for!

    My 338-06 is the limit for me. Off the bench, it rattles my eyeballs pretty good. Not interested in risking my vision for a big bore boom stick.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Beware a detached retina, or worse. A clean clock isn't necessarily something a guy want's to strive for!
    Yeah. On the slide-down toward the backside of my 60's now, I'm starting to think more about such stuff. I know a couple of guys about my age who did the whole retina detach rigamarole. Not pretty. Maybe I'll just do like Keith and O'Connor and so many other guys that got old too soon- Switch to bird hunting for my final years and leave the heavy lifting to the youngsters.

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Haha, you guys Crack me up. The 405 winchester should be of similar recoil. anyhow, I forgot to mention, .410 pistol bullets are very cheap and readily available too. This is another reason I conjured up this working man's big bore. With 210 grain pistol bullets, even kids could enjoy this rifle

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    I forgot to mention, .410 pistol bullets are very cheap and readily available too. This is another reason I conjured up this working man's big bore. With 210 grain pistol bullets, even kids could enjoy this rifle
    That's the line of thinking that led to my own 44 Kodiak, a 45-70 case blown out to almost no taper and necked with a sharp shoulder to .429. Think of it as a "super" 444 Marlin with around 10% more case capacity on the Marlin 1895. Not the same case capacity as your .410, but still impressive with 300+ grainers while a maiden's kiss with lighter loads and lighter bullets. Comparing that with what you're doing, I can report you're on firm ground and guaranteed to have a ball.

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    I finally got around to shooting the rifle. After the first few rounds, I walked back to the house and swapped out the flat metal butt plate, it didn't even have a crescent countour. I'm not from the 1800's so it kind of hurt. I headed back to the range with a poor fitting recoil pad off a shotgun. I don't have a rear peep sight for it yet.

    I started at 55 grains of Alliant Reloader 10x (cci standard large rifle primers). I saw 2,207 fps. I worked my way up to 58 grains of powder, which gave me a full case with no compression of the charge. At that charge weight, I saw 2,310 fps. The cases looked great, and extraction was like butter. Reloader 10x seems to be a great powder for the 410 O&M, very mild pressure and recoil. Therefore, it would also be good for other lever guns in 400 Whelen or 411 Hawk.

    I supposed in a bolt action, a guy could go to a faster burning powder like IMR 3031 or Reloader 7 and push it to 2400 fps, but I don't want to do that in this wonderful 1895. I'm very happy overall with the velocity. At 2310 fps, with 350 Swift A-frames, the recoil of the rifle is very tolerable. It doesn't kick hard at all with the recoil pad. It honestly felt like a 444 marlin, or a 35 whelen. With that said though, I wouldn't want the rifle any lighter. with the 20" barrel, it weighs 7lbs. I look forward to shooting pistol bullets next.

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    Default Blc-2

    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    I talked to my gunsmith today. The .410 OM is a success. It cycles and chambers to perfection. He's gonna make up some test rounds with 3031 powder I believe, and head out to have some fun I suppose. Rifle should be in my hands by the end of the week. I may try some reloader 10x, because that is what I have on hand. I'm thinking reloader 10x should be an optimal powder for that particular bullet weight and near-straightwall case. It's gonna be nice, just necking up cheap privi 9.3x62 cases (I have tons), and softening up my shoulder. This rifle has a straight metal buttplate (no crescent), so that is getting replaced with a pacmyer recoil pad.

    I'd like to see 2300-2350 fps from the 21" barrel. It was exactly 8 lbs with the 24 in barrel, so with the barrel lopped off 3 inches, and so much meat taken out of what's left, it should be right at 7lbs. It'll be every bit as handy as a model 94 winchester, but with some serious bite. I have NEVER fired an 1895, will be pretty weird doing so, for the first time, with my wildcat creation.

    Please keep in mind, I created this to SHARE with others. I'm not going to get some stupid patent on the case dimensions like some others. My gunsmith is a workin man's kinda smith, so it won't cost a feller no more than $250 for an old 30-06 to be done up. Git you some ultra cheap 9.3x62 privi brass.....and have you ah serious big bore.

    BLC-2 should work a little better I'm using 61 grains in my version of a 400 Whelen with a 350 Hawk bullet. In a bolt action.

  14. #14
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I'll probably stick the the 10x though, as I have good amount of this powder. Here's the rifle, and a picture of the cartridge next to a 30-06:


    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Pretty gun. Pretty serious cartridge. Done with 99s?

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    Pretty gun. Pretty serious cartridge. Done with 99s?
    Not at all my friend. I like to diversify my lever gun experience. I've had my eye on an 1895 for many years, I just hadn't got around to calling one mine. So, after a few years of hunting and filling the freezers with a savage 99 in 358 win, a BLR in 358 win, and my son shooting a model 94 in 375 win, I'm wanting to experience a new thresh hold of lever gun and cartridge power.

    Amigowill had sent me some very old books, and reading those, led to reading others. lotta history with that rifle. Guys like Murphy, and Mart were really talking up the 41 cals. They are a rangeable bullet, shaped very much like a 35-375 bullet, but with the weight and knock down power of a 458 cal. Forum member North 61 was also sporting a winchester 1895 in 405 winchester. Though the title is absurd, I remember reading this article too:

    https://www.riflemagazine.com/magazi...1532&magid=104

    Anyhow, about the greatest carry rifle I've ever found is a model 94 or a savage 99 carbine. This rifle, feels no different, every bit as trim, light, and compact, till you pull the trigger..........

  17. #17
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    hand loading so far:

    I've just been partially full length resizing with a 9.3x62 rcbs die, the die only resizes about 2/3 of the case, without messing with the shoulder.

    To expand the necks, I just drive a 410 bullet down into the case backwards, and lubricate the insides of the necks with case lube before doing so. It seems to be every bit as effective as a tapered expander plug. I fashioned a die with a flat plate to set the bullet on to act as an expander plug. I then use a bullet puller to remove it. The neck tension is very good, the lapua brass exhibits some good spring-back. Making 400 whelen brass commonly results in lost cases, I've not lost ONE case.

    I haven't resized the necks on already-fired cases. I might accomplish this with a 41 magnum pistol die, being very careful not to bump the neck.


    So, commonly available reloading components, and a little bit of thinking outside the box until the custom dies finally come in. I guess I'm just impatient, I wanted ammo NOW! I wanted to fire it NOW.

  18. #18
    Member Smokey's Avatar
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    Looks like you are having fun and that is what life should be about - soon we expect a moose pic with that canon draped over a 60incher!
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    loaded up some cheap fmj pistol bullets in privi brass. the privi brass seems to resize just as well. I added up the cost of these, it's only about 47 cents a round. I'll then have brass that precisely fits this custom chamber. I used mr 2000, to slow down the pistol bullets, as this powder is similar to reloader 17, which is too slow, but great for target rounds!

  20. #20

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    Any thoughts of casting your own bullets, whether light pistol bullets for casual shooting or heavyweights with potential for hunting? That's where the cheap shooting and fun are at with my 44.

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