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Thread: Issues with non-resident hunters

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    Default Issues with non-resident hunters

    Hello to everyone. I want to start by saying thanks to everyone on this forum for all the tips and info that you post, it really helps a guy like me. I'm planning my third trip to Alaska (May 2016) and sent my deposit to my bush pilot this morning. I read through the post all the time and one thing that I have picked up on is it seems some are not real big on non-res hunters. I was just wondering why that is and hopefully I wont make the same mistakes the previous non-res hunters have to contribute to the negative impression.

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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Only if your a non-res sheep hunter

    On a serious note, a lot of the guys on here don't mind non-res hunters. Shoot, I'm willing to bet a large majority of the people here were non residents in the beginning..seeings how AK makes you wait a year even once you move up here. I know that's how it was for me anyway.

    I hope you continue to enjoy your adventures and this great state- res or non res

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimano 33 View Post
    Only if your a non-res sheep hunter

    On a serious note, a lot of the guys on here don't mind non-res hunters. Shoot, I'm willing to bet a large majority of the people here were non residents in the beginning..seeings how AK makes you wait a year even once you move up here. I know that's how it was for me anyway.

    I hope you continue to enjoy your adventures and this great state- res or non res
    Big difference between folks who moved here and waited out the time as a non-res hunter, until they became a resident, and those that are simply visiting once a year.
    Splitting the hair even finer, there's a difference between those who put in their time here intending to make Alaska home, and those who are only here for a few years, and know that going in.....

    Resident or Non isn't the issue, it's how one comports his or her self. Plenty of bad apples who've been here too long, as well as those who spend less than a lunar cycle here.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    Big difference between folks who moved here and waited out the time as a non-res hunter
    Big difference in how much dough they have to fork out to partake too. And I do agree with your post, difference there is, but un-welcomed (what the OP is getting at) shouldn't be. IMO

    And to clarify, I don't think Non-Res should have free range to do whatever they please and have the same opportunities as Res, but if they're willing to cough up the $ to see/explore/fish/hunt AK and they are benefitting the economy here I don't see why they should feel unwelcomed.

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    Member BrettAKSCI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tex hunter View Post
    Hello to everyone. I want to start by saying thanks to everyone on this forum for all the tips and info that you post, it really helps a guy like me. I'm planning my third trip to Alaska (May 2016) and sent my deposit to my bush pilot this morning. I read through the post all the time and one thing that I have picked up on is it seems some are not real big on non-res hunters. I was just wondering why that is and hopefully I wont make the same mistakes the previous non-res hunters have to contribute to the negative impression.
    People are silly. I treat non residents with the same respect I hope Montanans will show me when I'm down there elk hunting in October. Creating classes of hunters real residents (born in AK), wannabe residents (just got here), out of state DIY, out of state guided, ect is just silly. We're all hunters and should be welcomed with respect.

    Brett

    Brett

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    As long as you treat the people, animals, land, and water with respect and understanding you will be fine. Come up with an attitude and trash the place and you won't be welcome. Read my sig line.
    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Funny how this situation presents itself to newcomers in several pastimes. Guess there is just that protective instinct that is triggered when one's turf is stepped on, surely a direct correlation to how far the roots go.
    I think about hunting when I wake up in the morning. I think about it all day. And I think about it at night. The only time I don't think about it is when I'm doing it. ~credit to Carl Yastrzemski~

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    What I've found here on this forum, and generalizations are true in general is that most are in it for the meat.

    Alaska fish and game laws provide plenty of resident only benefits such as dip netting, subsistence, and other, but some game laws are just a bit silly..

    Such as.. 5 king salmon per year for Kenai pen fisherman... if you have lived here 50 years, year round, or if you are from California and visiting for a week..same limit.

    Any hunter I meet that carries them self with respect for the area, and the game, I immediately have respect for. What's happening more and more are hunters coming just for the horns.. and feel giving the meat to the villagers is some great act of kindness(is and isn't.. many times it's in poor shape, and the villagers use half or less of it)...

    A resident that gets a moose appreciates it...it's a big deal. That's meat for two years in a typical family.. a great story, and just a great everything...


    As an Alaskan resident I just want to see the moose harvested by a non resident appreciated and used as much and as efficiently as it is by a resident.... bottom line. A resident gets a moose and let me tell you, it's NOT just a horn story. Keep reading here.. you'll see what I mean.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    I think in some cases what is perceived as an anti-non-resident attitude is rather a concern for resident access and opportunity. There have been some cases where residents have borne the brunt of management or access restrictions, and frustration with that has at times been taken as frustration with non-residents.

    All of that said, I think that most here gladly welcome conscientious non-resident hunters and fishermen. Many, many times I've spent time helping non-residents learn how to fish a particular river or species, and I've met visiting non-residents for a coffee or beer before or after their hunt in order to swap stories and tips. I'm sure that lots of our members here do likewise.

    Since you ended with a note about not wanting to leave a negative impression, another tip or two: One thing that leaves a bad taste in the mouth of some is when non-resident hunters come up and take caribou or moose and yet have no interest in taking the meat home. There is value in donating meat to those in need, but it still can feel like a bit of a smack in the face to those who hunt primarily for food and who are working to fill their own freezer. Also, when you share your pictures and stories (and please do!), share the experience and journey, the wonder and excitement of exploring a new place, and not just the score of the animal's skull, horns, or antlers. Most residents love sharing the joy that we find in this place, but maybe cringe a bit when it's reduced to a number in a book.

    I'm assuming that you're coming for a bear hunt since you're booked for May? Tell us about it! Most of us enjoy sharing in the excitement of an upcoming hunt!

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    All my X's truly do live in Texas,Angleton,Brazoria and Lake Jackson. As you know Texas has little public hunting grounds and Alaska has alot. A no local has a snowballs chance in heck of knocking on a door and going duck or dove hunting on the many thousands of acres of rice fields in Danbury unless you know someone like a Peltier (Steve). Being from Danbury you should be fine.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I have no issue with non-resident hunters. I've met a bunch that were truly great folks that I'd happily share a camp with any day.

    While I realize the logistics of dealing with 500 pounds (or more) of game meat while far from home is a daunting task... I think Brian and anchoriver summed it up. I just have a hard time with seeing somebody drop a moose and flying out with the backstrap and a rack. After you talk to some folks in villages and hear what they say about the condition of some of that "donated meat", it's not really pretty. Every year we're treated to multiple stories of folks letting meat spoil in garbage bags or dumping a few hundred pounds of sandy, wet, rotting meat on the doorstep of the first person who'd sign the transfer form to make them "legal" before heading home. Some of them didn't have bad intent, they just didn't have a plan for dealing with something like a moose or a caribou under wilderness conditions. A lot of these guys have never shot anything they couldn't drive the pickup right up to.

    As a guy who works pretty hard to put meat in the freezer year in and year out, that's just a tough pill to swallow.

    Certainly not a blanket condemnation... I did meet a couple of guys who drove up from Oklahoma with a freezer and a generator in a trailer- specifically to take meat home in prime condition. Can't say I had any issue with that at all- they made a plan beforehand and had really studied up on field care.

    Of course, residents who do a shabby job with game meat piss me off too...
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    I agree with Brian.... Alaskans don't have a problem with non-residents, as most of us were non-residents at one time. Instead, I believe the resentment comes from the disproportionate opportunity that Alaska regulations offer non-residents at the expense of residents.

    In other states, for difficult to draw tags, non-residents are limited to 10%. For Kodiak brown bear, non-residents are guaranteed 30% of the tags, and then non-residents with relatives in AK. have equal footing on the resident tags.

    For sheep, non-residents are 3x more successful (partially due to the guide requirement). So for every additional 1 non-resident tag made available above the customary 10%, 3 residents won't get to hunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    I think in some cases what is perceived as an anti-non-resident attitude is rather a concern for resident access and opportunity.
    Exactly. Non-residents have always hunted in Alaska. The difference between now and previous times is that there is less access to lands and more people ALREADY living here wanting game, so competition is stiff to begin with for residents.
    As for hunting the L48; some of us don't really have the means to do that. I probably won't be all huggy with a nonresident just because I'm going to go elk or deer hunting on their turf. Still, as others have said, I sure won't look down on nonresidents. It's a free country and the state laws allow it (if not encourage it). Just don't compete with Alaskans who still view the animals as food, not merely sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    All my X's truly do live in Texas,Angleton,Brazoria and Lake Jackson. As you know Texas has little public hunting grounds and Alaska has alot. A no local has a snowballs chance in heck of knocking on a door and going duck or dove hunting on the many thousands of acres of rice fields in Danbury unless you know someone like a Peltier (Steve). Being from Danbury you should be fine.
    You nailed it Amigo! Obviously you are familiar with my back yard. Hell I've lived here me entire life and still cant get access by knocking on a door (unless I'm holding a large check). And that is why I love Alaska. As far as just being there to trophy hunt, that's not me. I cant afford the big stuff sheep, goat and brown bear). My previous hunts have been deer and duck (all brought home and eaten). The bear will be my first Ak bear hunt, I have killed a blackie in Oregon and really enjoyed every last bit of steak and hamburger. I'm at information overload and have researched myself sick at this point. I will more than likely be doing this one solo so that adds another wrinkle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchorrivercrowds View Post
    but some game laws are just a bit silly..

    Such as.. 5 king salmon per year for Kenai pen fisherman... if you have lived here 50 years, year round, or if you are from California and visiting for a week..same limit.
    .
    Really?......I didn't know only people from "California" had that privilege.......

    Quote Originally Posted by anchorrivercrowds View Post
    What's happening more and more are hunters coming just for the horns.....
    Unfortunately the people that have been coming to AK. to hunt have pretty much been doing that since day one. Probably even more so back then when there wasn't a law that required you to salvage all the meat. Back then many of these hunters hunted for months at a time and only ate whatever meat they wanted while they were on the hunt. Make da*n sure though that all them horns and antlers made it back to the lower 48.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tex hunter View Post
    I was just wondering why that is and hopefully I wont make the same mistakes the previous non-res hunters have to contribute to the negative impression.
    As a 4mer guide in AK. I found out that there were two types of hunters......

    One type of hunter is only in it for the trophy........really couldn't care less about Alaska......the place that is actually providing their "trophy". Feels they paid a pretty price for this animal, and that's what it's all about.....really nothing more.

    The other type of hunter wanted to experience all of it...... From the beauty, to the ass kicking weather, to how it felt to carry a 130 pound hindquarter on their back for a mile or more....

    The first type of hunter usually never wanted to help me do anything.....much less pack any meat. The second felt they couldn't help me enough.....

    Hunters are people just like anybody else. How they are back home is how they are when they come up here. Some are super appreciative and some are not. Be the latter and you'll be fine.

    Alaskans care about people that care about Alaska....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Can't speak to the hunting issue but I have found that the visitors I've met fishing are less likely to be familiar with the regulations and more likely to want to violate the ones they know about (for example, being determined to catch salmon in areas closed to salmon fishing, retaining fish from a catch-and-release fishery, etc.). But I also have to say that for the most part visitors are nearly all having a great time, excited about being in Alaska, determined to play by the rules, and a lot of fun to talk to (those are the ones I give flies to ... ). However, it's the bad ones you tend to remember later.
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    I'm not against non residents in general either and agree with many previous posters.
    One issue we often see is when we get a non-resident who wants to do a DIY hunt in an area that has decent access and has a lot of questions about a particular area. Things like how to access the area easily and where to find game once there.
    They often do not realize the area is probably hunted by someone else and has been for many many years. The person who hunts that very same area every year for 5,10,20+ years may seem gruff but they are just trying to keep the areas they hunt from being overrun by other people.
    Some local person (quite likely a forum member) hears that 3 or 4 guys from the lower 48 are going to be hunting the area he hunts and are planning on hunting the same area of the GMU the resident does and want him to post up intel on the internet for the whole world to see well....
    Then we hear these same non residents are doing things on the cheap and spending as little as possible while here so as to contribute as little as possible to our economy.
    Alaska isn't quite the hunting utopia many outsiders believe it to be.
    So when a local wants to keep his hunting area or details of it a secret (as much as is possible nowdays)don't take it as hatred of the Nonresident. It most likely is just a local protecting the area he hunts every year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    I'm not against non residents in general either and agree with many previous posters.
    One issue we often see is when we get a non-resident who wants to do a DIY hunt in an area that has decent access and has a lot of questions about a particular area. Things like how to access the area easily and where to find game once there.
    They often do not realize the area is probably hunted by someone else and has been for many many years. The person who hunts that very same area every year for 5,10,20+ years may seem gruff but they are just trying to keep the areas they hunt from being overrun by other people.
    Some local person (quite likely a forum member) hears that 3 or 4 guys from the lower 48 are going to be hunting the area he hunts and are planning on hunting the same area of the GMU the resident does and want him to post up intel on the internet for the whole world to see well....
    Then we hear these same non residents are doing things on the cheap and spending as little as possible while here so as to contribute as little as possible to our economy.
    Alaska isn't quite the hunting utopia many outsiders believe it to be.
    So when a local wants to keep his hunting area or details of it a secret (as much as is possible nowdays)don't take it as hatred of the Nonresident. It most likely is just a local protecting the area he hunts every year.
    I understand where you're coming from, re resident/nonresident hunting the same areas, but:
    For most DIY'ers, the worry is leaving TOO MUCH money here for the local economy. In 1991, my son (17yo) & I did a DIY moose hunt (thru a hunt planner). All told, I spent about $7000 on that hunt (including some gear - tent, stove, etc). At the time my household income was around 50K. I'm saying this to explain that I was totally UNINTERESTED in leaving any more money in AK than was necessary. It didn't detract one tiny bit from the enjoyment my son & I had or the taste of the moose meat shipped home. For those interested, I shipped 9 boxes of boned meat, weighing an average of 70-75 lbs per box. I paid (I think) $50/box for 6 boxes. Because I volunteered to throw the boxes on the baggage roller, the agent didn't charge me for any overweights & let slide a couple of boxes free. Ahh, the good old days. I did tip, where appropriate, though it might not have been enough to keep some happy - it was what I felt I could afford and I was glad to be able to do it. The LEAST of my worries was leaving a little extra for the local economy. I'm now a 20 year resident and still don't worry too much about "local economies", when I go out of town. I still do things as cheaply as possible. Example: I try to buy items for my trips to the Kenai at home or Anchorage (where they're usually cheaper). I fill extra cans of fuel for the truck for the same reason. If that line of reasoning (or of cheapness) causes a gas station south of Girdwood to close, I really don't care - as long as it doesn't affect the number of trout in the Kenai or their willingness to bite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    ...The LEAST of my worries was leaving a little extra for the local economy. I'm now a 20 year resident and still don't worry too much about "local economies", when I go out of town. I still do things as cheaply as possible. Example: I try to buy items for my trips to the Kenai at home or Anchorage (where they're usually cheaper). I fill extra cans of fuel for the truck for the same reason. If that line of reasoning (or of cheapness) causes a gas station south of Girdwood to close, I really don't care - as long as it doesn't affect the number of trout in the Kenai or their willingness to bite.
    Yup, what everybody on the Kenai has suspected all along. Your honesty is refreshing anyway.

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