Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Learning

  1. #1
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Last civilized place on the planet
    Posts
    2,080

    Default Learning

    I picked up a TC Triumph over the winter and finally got a chance to shoot it over the weekend, it was pretty cool. I started out with some ball ammo and 80 G of Blackthorne and found I was on the paper at 50 yards, not a great group and maybe thats normal for ball ammo. Then switched to some Hornady 250 SST low drag and immediately got a 1.5" group.....I was stoked....!

    Then moved the target out to 100 yards and was ~ 16" low (still using 80g), I bumped the charge up to 110g and POI came up 10"...cool...!
    Then used 120g and POI raised another couple of inches.... I was still ~3" low...

    Then the wind blew my target backstop down and I was done for the day...

    I think I will sight in for 100yds and experiment with some different bullets/charges.... The choices are considerable.. wondering what others have done here. What works? what doesn't? is every gun a little different?

    Anyone have any experience with THOR bullets?
    https://thorbullets.com/Products.html
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Peters Creek
    Posts
    284

    Default

    I bought a new CVA modern inline over the winter. Neve got much response here but went to http://www.frontiermuzzleloading.com and got a lot of answers and info. This is a group of guys that shoot all types of ML's. They can also tell you everything you want or need to know about Thor's also.

  3. #3

    Default

    That's a good "crossover" site, covering both modern inlines and traditional guns. My interests and experience run to the traditional side, so it's good to know of someplace with more about the moderns any time someone asks me. On the traditional side it doesn't get much better than http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ for guidance, but they allow NO talk of moderns and modern bullets. They get waaaay into gunsmithing, traditional crafts and history, as well as really diverse types of shooting.

  4. #4
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Last civilized place on the planet
    Posts
    2,080

    Default

    Thanks guys....! was a bit surprised at lack of info here... I dread the thought of joining yet another forum, if I cant find it on here it must not be that important...HAHA


    I am having a lot more fun with this gun than I expected, I bought it for a specific ML hunt. Installed a Skinner peep sight and thinking about adding a Merit disc.
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akgramps View Post
    Thanks guys....! was a bit surprised at lack of info here... I dread the thought of joining yet another forum, if I cant find it on here it must not be that important...HAHA
    No fees and no spam on the traditional site, but you're right. Another to eyeball. Just not a lot of folks here who do more than sight in and hunt a few days, if they shoot MLs at all. I shoot several thousand shots a year and make almost everything myself. Active shooters really do need to kinda scout around to find each other here in AK though.

  6. #6
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Last civilized place on the planet
    Posts
    2,080

    Default

    BB, Maybe you can tell me why the typical 50 cal hunting bullets are so heavy? Why can I kill a moose with 180g bullet with my center fire rifle, but need 450g out of a ML? I was just looking at Powerbelts website and they are touting 400g+ bullets to do the same job....?

    I know the 300 is traveling another 1000ft/s, which seems to make the case for the lighter bullet anyway....? Obviously velocity is more important than I thought.... I know you can find plenty of info about folks shooting long distances with a ML, myself, I consider this a 100 yd gun, I think getting close is part of the whole point... IMHO..... I know I could prolly shoot it longer distances...but I have plenty of rifles that do that very well.
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

  7. #7

    Default

    You'll be doing good to get a 400 grain 50 cal going much more than 1400fps, and the lighter ones anywhere near 2k, if I recall correctly. That's a whole lot like the best handguns around. Black powder just burns different and the end results are lots like a modern powder from short barrels. Penetration rules compare well with handgun bullets the same diameter too, as do trajectories. You don't hear guys launching 400 grain bullets from handguns shooting much past 100 either. The trajectories are just too loopy for accurate shooting at uncertain distances with open sights. Both are 100 yard guns at best for the most part. And within 100 yards they're relying on mass for penetration.

    In my traditional muzzleloaders I shoot lots of conical bullets I cast myself, but since I'm shooting inside 100 anyway, round balls are equally flat and whole lots easier to cast, as well as shoot. But round balls can only be so heavy for a given caliber. If you want more mass for penetration and whack in general, you have to go to bigger balls. Conicals in 50 cal are popular simply because you can get better penetration without having to go to a whole new (and bigger) gun. I end up doing all my hunting with roundballs simply because I like em, and pairing the right diameter with the right game means no problems with penetration. In fact 50 cal is my lightest big game caliber and I use it only for deer. I also shoot 54, 58, 62, 72 and 75 caliber. My most "universal" caliber for trajectory and whack on big game is the 58 caliber, and I own several of them. Just a dandy caliber that shoots plenty flat for 100 yards while really performing well on anything from deer to moose. The bigger calibers require lots more powder and recoil to get "flat" for 100 yard shooting, to the point of being downright obnoxious on the back end.

    I hope I don't sound like an evangelist for traditional, because I'm not. I'm a real buff of our hunting and shooting heritage, and I get a real hoot out of making things myself and using the guns and loads from a couple hundred years ago. It's my preference and frame of reference, so I kind of have to explain things from that angle. If you think of your 50 cal muzzleloader more like a handgun in terms of velocities, bullet weights, trajectory and the way they kill, it will probably make more sense than my wander into round ball ballistics.

  8. #8
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Last civilized place on the planet
    Posts
    2,080

    Default

    BB, thanks for the reply. I dont have a chrony so rely on the web for info. So far I have only used Blackhorn powder, so far so good but I do not have any first hand experience to compare powders.

    From what I have read using 300g bullets at 120g they are seeing 1900/2200 ft/s, in fact they do not recommend using over 350g bullets. They have ballistics on a 444g powerbelt and suggest lowering the charge to 110g.

    Seems like I need to use a different powder or use 300g bullets, and I have to believe a well placed bullet with 2200/2400 FPE will penetrate and do the job.

    I would like to pursue the traditional aspect at some time.... one step at a time...

    This is Blackhorns load data
    Volumetric Units (volumetric powder measure) 80 100 120
    Weight in Grains (weighed on a scale) 56 70 84
    BULLET SABOT/BULLET DIA. VELOCITY FPS
    245 gr. Barnes Spit-Fire TMZ .50/.45 1,740 1,970 2,149
    250 gr. Barnes Expander MZ .50/.45 1,682 1,923 2,121
    250 gr. Barnes Spit-Fire TMZ .50/.45 1,679 1,924 2,124
    285 gr. Barnes Spit-Fire MZ .50/.45 1,690 1,914 2,097
    290 gr. Barnes Spit-Fire TMZ .50/.45 1,634 1,865 2,066
    300 gr. Barnes Expander MZ .50/.45 1,687 1,892 2,092
    180 gr. Hornady HP/XTP .50/.44 1,803 2,046 2,227
    200 gr. Hornady HP/XTP MMP Sabot .50/.44 1,686 1,946 2,170
    240 gr. Hornady HP/XTP .50/.44 1,696 1,925 2,123
    240 gr. Hornady XTP/MAG .50/.45 1,752 1,966 2,191
    250 gr. Hornady SST/ML .50/.45 1,734 1,936 2,119
    250 gr. Hornady SST/ML Low Drag Sabot .50/.45 1,738 1,943 2,145
    300 gr. Hornady SST/ML .50/.45 1,620 1,850 2,050
    300 gr. Hornady SST/ML Low Drag Sabot .50/.45 1,651 1,855 2,039
    350 gr. Hornady FPB 0.503 1,509 1,701 1,909
    250 gr. Nosler SHOTS JHP .50/.45 1,722 1,934 2,119
    250 gr. Nosler Partition-HG .50/.45 1,740 1,939 2,150
    260 gr. Nosler Partition-HG .50/.45 1,719 1,933 2,145
    300 gr. Nosler SHOTS JHP .50/.45 1,608 1,813 2,013
    300 gr. Nosler Partition-HG .50/.45 1,741 1,925 2,123
    245 gr. Powerbelt Aerotip Copper 0.498 1,629 1,851 2,050
    270 gr. Powerbelt Aerotip Platinum 0.498 1,549 1,764 1,945
    295 gr. Powerbelt Aerotip Copper 0.498 1,490 1,693 1,917
    444 gr. Powerbelt Flat Point Copper 0.498 1,428 1,597 NR
    240 gr. Swift A-Frame .50/.44 1,742 1,949 2,155
    300 gr. Swift A-Frame .50/.44 1,644 1,857 2,042
    200 gr. T/C Shock Wave SP .50/.40 1,733 1,993 2,200
    250 gr. T/C Shock Wave SP .50/.45 1,723 1,920 2,149
    250 gr. T/C Shock Wave Super Glide .50/.45 1,655 1,905 2,098
    300 gr. T/C Shock Wave SP .50/.45 1,632 1,862 2,070
    300 gr. Harvester Sabertooth Belted HP .50/.50 1,586 1,791 2,016
    300 gr. Harvester Scorpion PT Gold .50/.45 1,634 1,815 2,032
    250 gr. Parker Jacketed Ballistic Extreme .50/.45 1,696 1,892 2,106
    275 gr. Parker Jacketed Ballistic Extreme .50/.45 1,657 1,852 2,066
    200 gr. Precision Rifle Dead Center .50/.40 1,727 1,933 2,168
    220 gr. Precision Rifle Dead Center .50/.40 1,691 1,888 2,114
    240 gr. Precision Rifle Dead Center .50/.40 1,652 1,844 2,075
    260 gr. Precision Rifle Dead Center .50/.40 1,616 1,813 2,035
    300 gr. THOR Hollow Point .50+ 1,630 1,826 2,032
    NR = Not Recommended
    1
    LOAD DATA FOR
    MUZZLELOADER RIFLES
    1 - Volumetric Units = Measured with a standard black powder measure, or
    Blackhorn 209 graduated charge tube. This IS NOT equal to weight in grains
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
    TR

  9. #9

    Default

    Long as you're compiling numbers, here's a few I work with on the traditional side:

    A .490 roundball (50 cal) weighs 177 grains.
    A .530 roundball (54 cal) weighs 224 grains.
    A .570 roundball (58 cal) weighs 279 grains.
    A .610 roundball (62 caliber) weighs 342 grains
    A .715 roundball (72 caliber) weighs 550 grains
    A .735 roundball (75 caliber) weighs 598 grains.

    Easy to see where they get their "power" as ball size goes up.

    Another interesting note, my homecast 50 cal conicals range from 250 to over 400 grains, the 54's from 380 to just over 500, and the 58's from 440 grains up to 650. Don't know of any larger conical molds that are readily available, and frankly I don't want to know! Get one of those heaviest 58's up to around 1400, and you can't even keep your front foot on the ground.

    Whether for your inline or for traditionals, casting balls and bullets pays huge dividends. LEE molds are cheap and effective, and you don't need a lubrisizer or anything more than a mold, a heat source, a pot and a ladle. Since I recover most of my lead and reuse it, I can just keep on shooting and not worry about bullet costs or whether the local store is selling them or not. Inside 100 yards where I use them, even the roundballs kill very well too.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •