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Thread: 80% AR15 Lowers

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    Default 80% AR15 Lowers

    Are there many here who have done any 80% AR15 lowers ? I enjoy doing them myself....the lack of S/N and ppwk is a plus....

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    Member Scorpion8's Avatar
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    I have a 0% lower billet that I use as a paperweight in the office because it truly peeves off the liberals at work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjburk View Post
    Are there many here who have done any 80% AR15 lowers ? I enjoy doing them myself....the lack of S/N and ppwk is a plus....
    Might be some.... Maybe.

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    Yea I've done some when the owners gave up. I got to number them though. I also make some from scratch on my HAAS CNC for those willing to pay because you can get lowers right now for half what it costs me to make one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjburk View Post
    Are there many here who have done any 80% AR15 lowers ? I enjoy doing them myself....the lack of S/N and ppwk is a plus....
    For us 'infidels', can someone briefly explain what the first sentence means? 80 percent lowers? Etc.
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    80% lowers still need some work done to them. Typically some holes drilled and material removed. They don't have serial numbers because they are not completed. You can buy one and then use your own tools and a jig to finish it up and have a gun with no serial number.
    2007 Kingfisher 2825 - Stor Fisk

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    Quote Originally Posted by JR2 View Post
    80% lowers still need some work done to them. Typically some holes drilled and material removed. They don't have serial numbers because they are not completed. You can buy one and then use your own tools and a jig to finish it up and have a gun with no serial number.
    Thanks JR. Probly a lot quicker to just file and sand off some numbers if a guy wants something w no numbers.
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cod View Post
    Thanks JR. Probly a lot quicker to just file and sand off some numbers if a guy wants something w no numbers.
    2 things immediately come to mind. First, filing the serial number off is a federal crime. Building a gun is 100% legal. So if you want to be a felon, file. If you want to follow the law, build. Second, there are other reasons why someone might choose to go this route. I can't speak for anyone else, but I felt that by doing the work myself I would gain a better knowledge of the inner workings of the rifle. Since I built it, I know how it works and how to fix it. Which means I don't have to panic or feel lost if there's a problem with it. I just fix it.

    Second, to be more clear, no serial numbers are ever required for home made firearms whether chiseled from a block of aluminum or milled out from an "80% lower". So long as you are not in the business of selling firearms, you don't need a serial number. (To be fair the ATF does recommend it for your own protection should the gun be stolen, but it's not required if you are not in the business.) BTW, the ATF doesn't do percent completes. It's either 100% gun or it's 0% gun. The 80% moniker was a marketing ploy fabricated by some savvy gun store guy probably.

    For the "80% lower" the typical standard is that the fire control pocket is not milled out. Everything else is complete on the lower, but you have to mill the trigger pocket and drill the two fcg pin holes and the selector hole. Drilling the holes is easy. Milling the trigger pocket is where most people struggle.

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    Thanks Mobi. Good explanation.
    As I understand it, these guns have NO matching numbers on stock or barrel pieces. Correct?
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cod View Post
    Thanks Mobi. Good explanation.
    As I understand it, these guns have NO matching numbers on stock or barrel pieces. Correct?
    Well, if you're talking AR's, they don't always anyways. I'm not well versed in every single manufacturer on the market, but matching a serial number for a stock, a lower, and a barrel is nearly a futile exercise since the stocks are meant to be changed and a barrel change is almost as easy. A lot of the smaller manufacturers buy barrels from 3rd parties, so they wouldn't be serial numbered anyway. The only part on an AR that qualifies as the "firearm" according to the ATF is the lower receiver. Everything else is just parts. So the barrel, bolt, BCG, upper, stock etc, can be bought and shipped anywhere without any ATF involvement. In fact, some companies sell a "completion kit" that includes every part you need except the lower receiver. You supply the lower, and you have a completed gun. See this link:

    http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.../category/313/

    All shipped to your house without an FFL involved. All you need to provide is the lower receiver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Second, to be more clear, no serial numbers are ever required for home made firearms whether chiseled from a block of aluminum or milled out from an "80% lower". So long as you are not in the business of selling firearms, you don't need a serial number. (To be fair the ATF does recommend it for your own protection should the gun be stolen, but it's not required if you are not in the business.) BTW, the ATF doesn't do percent completes. It's either 100% gun or it's 0% gun. The 80% moniker was a marketing ploy fabricated by some savvy gun store guy probably.
    No the 80% is a number the ATF came up with because people kept asking where the line is.

    The GCA of 1968 reads;
    Firearm = "any weapon (including a starter gun) which will or is designed to or may be readily converted to expel a projectile"

    So everyone wanted to know where does a block of material become "readily converted" in the real world and ATF in their wisdom came up with when "80%" of the work is done!

    Well now how do we define what is 80% of the work? It takes about 45 minuets of CNC work to make an AR lower so I can pull it out at 35 minuets? It takes some folks longer, way longer with a drill and a file so I can go to 40 minuets of CNC expecting an hour of file work to convert it to a firearm?

    Nope, nope, nope . . . the only way to know if can be readily converted or not is go till you think your about 80% compleey then send it to ATF asking is this a firearm or not. Then you get a letter saying your product is or isn't a firearm. From there if it isn't a firearm then you call it 80% or whatever you want and sell it without paperwork if you want . . . even FFL holders because it is a part not a firearm. There is one place calling theirs 95% for marketing, they have an ATF letter saying it isn't a firearm so evidently the ATF guy believed it was at least 20% unfinished . . . we all have our opinions but it's the ATF guy's that counts here.

    Anyway the 80% number came from ATF ages ago, I'd guess like 1968 or 69 right after the GCA came out.
    Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Well, if you're talking AR's, they don't always anyways. I'm not well versed in every single manufacturer on the market, but matching a serial number for a stock, a lower, and a barrel is nearly a futile exercise since the stocks are meant to be changed and a barrel change is almost as easy. A lot of the smaller manufacturers buy barrels from 3rd parties, so they wouldn't be serial numbered anyway. The only part on an AR that qualifies as the "firearm" according to the ATF is the lower receiver. Everything else is just parts. So the barrel, bolt, BCG, upper, stock etc, can be bought and shipped anywhere without any ATF involvement. In fact, some companies sell a "completion kit" that includes every part you need except the lower receiver. You supply the lower, and you have a completed gun. See this link:

    http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.../category/313/

    All shipped to your house without an FFL involved. All you need to provide is the lower receiver.
    Yea, so many AR makers out there I doubt the part numbers mean much to ARs any more . . . likely do on government M16s tho. Its mostley the M1 Grand and 03 guys that talk about matching numbers . . . parts made under government contract are numbered and from these they can tell where/when things were made and if they would have been put on a gun in say WWII, Korea etc. and collectors seem to like parts of all the same time period.
    Andy
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    The AK builders (as in AKM, AK-47, AK-74) have been doing flat-bent receivers and 80% receivers for many years, all with no serial numbers. For a stamped receiver, it's just a piece of sheet metal until you bend the flat and weld in the rails.

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    Default Hard up??

    The pity! I truly hope and pray that I never get so hard up I have to work with gun-hating, Hillary loving liberals.

    Have you considered begging on the street corners as an alternative? You could even finish up your lower with a file as are standing around waiting for hand-outs.



    Quote Originally Posted by Scorpion8 View Post
    I have a 0% lower billet that I use as a paperweight in the office because it truly peeves off the liberals at work.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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