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Thread: 2nd Degree of Kindred

  1. #1

    Default 2nd Degree of Kindred

    Ok, as I am prepping to move up permanently in 2016 I have been looking at the various regs and this question keeps popping up: What proof is required of a nonresident to show that they are indeed 2nd degree or closer relation to a resident while hunting one of the restricted species? If after I am a resident, I take my brother-in-law who is married to my wife's sister we have completely different surnames, etc...how can we prove this? I'm really sure that this is abused, but I want to be sure that we have whatever proof may be required of us prior to an LE coming to check.
    Thanks.

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    1. Since he is the husband of ones spouses sister, I don't know if he counts by the Brother in Law definition.

      Residency Definitions, Alaska Department of Fish and Game


      "Second degree of kindred" means a father, mother, brother, sister, son, daughter, spouse, grandparent, grandchild, brother- or sister-in-law, son- or daughter-in-law, father- or mother-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepsister, stepbrother, stepson, or stepdaughter (5 AAC 92.990).
      1. A brother-in-law (plural brothers-in-law) is the brother of one's spouse or the husband of one's sibling. A sister-in-law (plural sisters-in-law) is the sister of one's spouse or the wife of one's sibling.




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    Yes, you can take your wife's sister hunting with you under this regulation. Your wife (resident also) may take her sister and her husband hunting. Or call an enforcement officer.

  4. #4

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    Where is that definition for brother-in-law coming from? I couldn't find it in either the code or the ADFG definition.
    Regardless, even if I were to take my wife's brother, similar problem. I know I can do the 2nd degree kindred, but I am curious about what proof is required?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utarded View Post
    Where is that definition for brother-in-law coming from? I couldn't find it in either the code or the ADFG definition.
    Regardless, even if I were to take my wife's brother, similar problem.
    I wasn't aware that the definition is in dispute. Dictionaries agree with Capn Mike. Precedent has probably been set at some point, but I'd have to have a compelling reason to think that the Alaska definition was any different than the common dictionary definition.

  6. #6

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    Definitions also state that the spouse of your spouse's siblings are in-laws as well. Merriam-Webster
    Full Definition of BROTHER-IN-LAW

    1
    : the brother of one's spouse
    2
    a : the husband of one's sister
    b : the husband of one's spouse's sister

    But again, how do we need to prove this in the field?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utarded View Post
    But again, how do we need to prove this in the field?
    you should probably check with ADF&G or the troopers. I suspect that you don't need to be able to prove it in the field, beyond being able to answer some identifying questions and provide contact information for follow up investigation.

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    Member oakman's Avatar
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    I can see how this could get tricky...What's a guy supposed to do, bring a copy of a marriage certificate with him? If you have a common name (like Smith or Jones), what does that prove?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utarded View Post
    Definitions also state that the spouse of your spouse's siblings are in-laws as well. Merriam-Webster
    Full Definition of BROTHER-IN-LAW

    1
    : the brother of one's spouse
    2
    a : the husband of one's sister
    b : the husband of one's spouse's sister

    But again, how do we need to prove this in the field?
    This is nice, but since there is a definition in Alaska statute, that is the definition that will hold up in court. When the two definitions have a conflict, it is the one already written in statute that trumps. Proof is easy enough to come by. Birth certificates are best, showing common parentage. There is currently no proof requirement written into game regs that I know of, but if asked to provide something, birth certificates are indisputable. Heck, you can be president of US without one, so with one you're golden.

  10. #10

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    I've been on several hunts with my BIL (sister's husband). On one of the hunts we got checked by a trooper. He asked some questions and that's about it. We didn't need any proof with us.

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    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Yep....jimss is right. No big deal.

    I did get a call from an F & G worker one time just before the draw tags were posted to assure that my son did indeed live in AK...he was my listed kindred....
    Proud to be an American!

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by willphish4food View Post
    This is nice, but since there is a definition in Alaska statute, that is the definition that will hold up in court. When the two definitions have a conflict, it is the one already written in statute that trumps. Proof is easy enough to come by. Birth certificates are best, showing common parentage. There is currently no proof requirement written into game regs that I know of, but if asked to provide something, birth certificates are indisputable. Heck, you can be president of US without one, so with one you're golden.
    Where is the definition of brother-in-law in the statute? Because I looked in the statute and in the adfg link that CapnMike provided and his definition of brother-in-law is not to be found in either.

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    I've been looking for where I found that, but it was on another computer that isn't available anymore. I don't think it was at an ADF&G site, but was at a legal dictionary site. I just searched for legal brother in law definition.

  14. #14

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    Good to know CapnMike. Thanks. And thanks to everybody else for the insights on this, I guess it isn't as big of a deal as I thought it would be.

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    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Utarded View Post
    Good to know CapnMike. Thanks. And thanks to everybody else for the insights on this, I guess it isn't as big of a deal as I thought it would be.
    No big deal if its legal, but big deal if its not and the question comes up. Your wife's sister's husband is not your brother in law.

  16. #16

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    Willphish4food,
    please provide me with a reference or link to the adfg's definition of brother-in-law. As CapnMike stated, his definition was not from Alaska nor the ADFG. And I think the vast majority of people/dictionaries would agree that the husband of my wife's sister is most certainly my brother-in-law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utarded View Post
    Willphish4food,
    please provide me with a reference or link to the adfg's definition of brother-in-law. As CapnMike stated, his definition was not from Alaska nor the ADFG. And I think the vast majority of people/dictionaries would agree that the husband of my wife's sister is most certainly my brother-in-law.
    I'm done. Talk to the guys who issue tickets. http://dps.alaska.gov/AWT/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Utarded View Post
    Willphish4food,
    please provide me with a reference or link to the adfg's definition of brother-in-law. As CapnMike stated, his definition was not from Alaska nor the ADFG. And I think the vast majority of people/dictionaries would agree that the husband of my wife's sister is most certainly my brother-in-law.
    Would that also make the brother of the husband of your wife's sister your brother-in law?? They have to cut it off somewhere, I just don't know where. I would definitely call the troopers and ask this question. I would be very interested to hear the answer. Could make my Xmas list a whole lot shorter!

  19. #19
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMike View Post
    Would that also make the brother of the husband of your wife's sister your brother-in law?? They have to cut it off somewhere, I just don't know where. I would definitely call the troopers and ask this question. I would be very interested to hear the answer. Could make my Xmas list a whole lot shorter!
    Asking the Troopers for a legal opinion is barking up the wrong tree. Ask the Alaska State Attorney General.
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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by CapnMike View Post
    Would that also make the brother of the husband of your wife's sister your brother-in law?? They have to cut it off somewhere, I just don't know where. I would definitely call the troopers and ask this question. I would be very interested to hear the answer. Could make my Xmas list a whole lot shorter!
    Lol, that is interesting. I definitely am planning to make a few calls in the next few days and I'll let you know what I find out. As for the brother of the husband of my wife's sister....I cannot find a dictionary that defines that as a brother-in-law, but who knows? Perhaps willphish4food will yet enlighten us with the location of the ADFG or AK formal definition of brother-in-law and save us all the trouble? As for me, the section of the Alaska Code that contains definition defines 2nd degree kindred but not what in-law means specifically.

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