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Thread: BOG's assault on Alaskan Resident Sheep hunters that own Aircraft.

  1. #1

    Default BOG's assault on Alaskan Resident Sheep hunters that own Aircraft.

    The BOG is meeting this week and public testimony will be this weekend. Here is the link for all the info-

    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...ting=anchorage

    Board of Game generated proposal 207 -

    Potential changes to use of aircraft for sheep hunting:
    1. From August 10 to September 20 aircraft may only be used to place hunters and
    camps, maintain existing camps, and salvage meat and trophies while used for the
    purpose of Dall sheep hunting. Using an aircraft for the purpose of spotting sheep
    or locating Dall sheep during the open hunting season is prohibited.

    To me this will effect residents that fly themselves or a buddy into hunt sheep more so than any other group of sheep hunters.

    The guides have the time to pre-season fly.

    So if you are concerned about this passing ( I have knowledge that it has support and traction with the board) go and sign up and testify on Saturday in opposition.

    I don't want to get into a debate about the pros or cons of this passing. This is specifically to let people know about it. If you're for it go and testify as well.

  2. #2

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    About impossible to enforce..............."No, Your Honor......I was looking for Black Bears.......I was NOT spotting Dall Sheep". "Yes, Your Honor, that is correct they share the same habitat". Case dismissed.......if you could even find a prosecutor stupid enough to allow the case to go forward.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    About impossible to enforce..............."No, Your Honor......I was looking for Black Bears.......I was NOT spotting Dall Sheep". "Yes, Your Honor, that is correct they share the same habitat". Case dismissed.......if you could even find a prosecutor stupid enough to allow the case to go forward.
    I agree with you, but it should never get to that point of having to go before a judge.

  4. #4
    Member BrettAKSCI's Avatar
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    I'm in complete agreement with this proposed rule. Hunting should be fair chase, not who can spot a sheep from the air, land on a ridge line, and then shoot it 4 hours later "the next day" while some guy has been sitting bellow for two days after walking 10 miles in for the season opener. I'm hardly anti airplane. I regularly use them for access and that's what they should be for, access. Not spotting game. As far as enforcement you are right. It would be difficult to enforce. The fact though is that 80% of people will follow a law if it exists. The other 20% will risk their cub.

    Brett

  5. #5
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    Guides will have the time to pre-season fly?!?!

    Oh good, I'm glad that this new law would open up
    Someone's schedule enough to pre-scout
    Game a month in advance. This is in the
    Guide regs already but under unethical practice. I agree making it a law would be a good thing. Also agree it's almost unenforceable.
    But as crowded as all the sheep
    Areas are now I suppose someone will have a camera to video all the guides and their airplanes tsking turns looking at the only legal ram in the valley.
    Guides will have the time.....what a unthought out statement.
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  6. #6
    Member oakman's Avatar
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    I agree with Jake that the enforcement here would be tough. All a pilot/hunter has to say is he was flying around looking for a good place to land, checking weather, etc.

    I also agree with that spotting sheep from the air and then shooting them the next day is not "fair chase", but probably should not be a law, mostly due to the difficulty in enforcement.

  7. #7
    Charterboat Operator Abel's Avatar
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    Ya, what Jake said.....
    Life's to short for an ugly boat

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    https://www.facebook.com/BlazeNAbelCharters/?fref=ts

  8. #8

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    Jake is correct it is already not legal for guides to intentionally hunt a specific animal spotted from a plane, has that law made anything better or change a thing ? What I meant about guides having time is- Any sheep guide that is a plane guy has done his scouting a few days before season and has camps put out for the opener. This law won't effect them much. I do understand why a lot of guides are for this, the resident hunter with a plane is a thorn in some of the guides sides.

  9. #9
    Member High Country's Avatar
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    This is a silly proposal. It is not enforceable. I can see hunters on the ground calling in the tail numbers of planes flying through the mountains and complaining that they are sheep spotting. Then pilots have to defend their actions as a result? That just doesn't seem right to me and anyone that thinks that it won't happen hasn't been in the game very long. Non-pilots are always commenting on actions of pilots and they have absolutely no clue what the pilot is doing. Pilots hear that sort of thing all the time.

    I am sure there are examples of what Brett described, however they are far from common. Do I think you should fly an area everyday during the season like I have seen in the past? No, but I cannot see how to enforce it. It will just bog down enforcement with no real repercussions.

    I do not think alienating certain user groups based on their equipment is the right approach in sheep management. Ban airplanes and what's next? ATV's? Long range rifles?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrettAKSCI View Post
    I'm in complete agreement with this proposed rule. Hunting should be fair chase, not who can spot a sheep from the air, land on a ridge line, and then shoot it 4 hours later "the next day" while some guy has been sitting bellow for two days after walking 10 miles in for the season opener. I'm hardly anti airplane. I regularly use them for access and that's what they should be for, access. Not spotting game. As far as enforcement you are right. It would be difficult to enforce. The fact though is that 80% of people will follow a law if it exists. The other 20% will risk their cub.


    Brett
    I'm curious how SCI defines Fair Chase, I have guided a lot of SCI hunters that have book deer shot behind a fence, I don't think that is fair chase either. Also a lot of guys with planes still walk 10-15 miles from the LZ to get into sheep. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience.

  11. #11
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    It's not illegal. It's unethical. There's a difference. Unless they changed it. They made it unethical because it's unenforceable.
    Thank you for being more specific on which group of guides you are talking about. There are potential clients that read these forums and when you guys lump all guides into the same trashy
    Categories it gives clients a false impression on alaskan guides. There are a few bad guides that black eye us all bout please be more specific when throwing a user group under the bus.
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
    Master guide 212

  12. #12

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    My bad Jake, I'm usually in a hurry when posting and I'm far from a word smith, remember I'm a guide, haha.

  13. #13
    Member AK-HUNT's Avatar
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    There was a 20 page thread and a BOG meetings that seemed to suggest there were two problems. (That was agreed at the meeting I attended anyway)
    1. Declining sheep populations
    2. Perceived overcrowding

    Which of these problems does this prop address? Passing regulations against one user group that makes others feel better is silly at best. I'd say the same thing if I didn't fly. (This prop changes nothing about the way I hunt personally before anyone goes there...)
    Its truly unenforceable and does nothing to address the stated issues. Its a distraction to make you and I impressed they passed something??

    I agree with Brett's assertions right up to the 80/20. I can't believe that anyone would stop doing that just because this prop passed.
    Its kinda like a magic trick. Yep-BOG passing regs. Nope- It changes nothing for 99% of you and I. SkwentnaMan addressed who this really helps (they think) and who really supports it. Pesky resident hunters flying around.
    Sorry Jake--Of course not all guides - but in my perception seems the only folks pushing this (with BOG of course). I'm not anti-guide to say the least.

    Look past the lipstick.

  14. #14
    Member High Country's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK-HUNT View Post
    There was a 20 page thread and a BOG meetings that seemed to suggest there were two problems. (That was agreed at the meeting I attended anyway)
    1. Declining sheep populations
    2. Perceived overcrowding

    Which of these problems does this prop address? Passing regulations against one user group that makes others feel better is silly at best. I'd say the same thing if I didn't fly. (This prop changes nothing about the way I hunt personally before anyone goes there...)
    Its truly unenforceable and does nothing to address the stated issues. Its a distraction to make you and I impressed they passed something??

    I agree with Brett's assertions right up to the 80/20. I can't believe that anyone would stop doing that just because this prop passed.
    Its kinda like a magic trick. Yep-BOG passing regs. Nope- It changes nothing for 99% of you and I. SkwentnaMan addressed who this really helps (they think) and who really supports it. Pesky resident hunters flying around.
    Sorry Jake--Of course not all guides - but in my perception seems the only folks pushing this (with BOG of course). I'm not anti-guide to say the least.

    Look past the lipstick.
    We worded it differently but your thoughts echo mine.

  15. #15
    Member AK-HUNT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by High Country View Post
    We worded it differently but your thoughts echo mine.
    Yes I think we typed at the same time. Same thoughts.

  16. #16
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    Yes this is a decoy move, just to make everyone excited something is being done. Knowin full well it's a waste of ink.
    I used to not be s word smith either, but since the recent rash of sheep threads and guides being blamed/accused/crucified whatever, for the perceived problems,
    Well I have started to try and be more carefull with how I word things. Now knowing the underlying feelings of resident sheep hunters.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    Yes this is a decoy move, just to make everyone excited something is being done. Knowin full well it's a waste of ink.
    I used to not be s word smith either, but since the recent rash of sheep threads and guides being blamed/accused/crucified whatever, for the perceived problems,
    Well I have started to try and be more carefull with how I word things. Now knowing the underlying feelings of resident sheep hunters.
    Yup, it's a "feel good" law, nothing more.
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and donít have one, youíll probably never need one again

  18. #18

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    I could post a few pictures to this thread proving it is very enforceable. The proposal is not worthless. Most cases would not be enforceable but some would. It's a "feel good" law right up until that point a plane flies into your basin and circles the sheep up and over.

    I mean, if it isn't enforceable what is everyone worried about? Lets pass it, lets "feel good", haha.

  19. #19
    Member .300wby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    but since the recent rash of sheep threads and guides being blamed/accused/crucified whatever, for the perceived problems,
    Heaven forbid! Crucified? Wow, feeling attacked Jake?

  20. #20
    Member High Country's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitepalm View Post
    I mean, if it isn't enforceable what is everyone worried about?
    I am worried about limiting user groups by the equipment they possess and all of the frivolous complaints some of us will have to deal with as a result. Not to mention laws should not be written to deflect pressure (BOG) or give a certain group a fuzzy feeling. The entire premise of putting a law like this into the books is ridiculous to me. A complete waste of time and resources of everyone involved when they could be using said resources to actually address the real issues.

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