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Thread: Why draw and then research?

  1. #1
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    Default Why draw and then research?

    Why do folks put in for tags before they look for help and info on the area they draw. I cannot believe anyone would put in for a rare tag with no prior knowledge or research of the area. It took many hours of research and digging for info to even pick a guide for my one and only trip up north. If your a resident and gonna solo the hunt, wouldn't it make sense to do most of the research before you apply?

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Can you imagine someone doing research on a bison tag for 30 years before actually getting the tag? I should start researching the TMA sheep tag now, so maybe I'll draw it within the next 20 years. And when I do draw it, hopefully that info and research ain't two decades old information.

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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    Can you imagine someone doing research on a bison tag for 30 years before actually getting the tag? I should start researching the TMA sheep tag now, so maybe I'll draw it within the next 20 years. And when I do draw it, hopefully that info and research ain't two decades old information.
    And some of those rare tags never do get drawn by a hunter, even when it is applied for each and every year...
    "Grin and Bear It"

  4. #4

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    Like others have said, the odds are so low of actually being drawn for some of these hunts (less than 1/2 of 1% chance in some instances) that it doesn't make al of sense to put a bunch of time in researching ahead of time. For most people, they will at least check to make sure they feel they will have time to plan for or research their hunt if/when they do get drawn. I know I put in for hunts I have never done before and don't know a lot about, but I will at least know whether I have reasonable means to access the hunt area and should be available during the open season. I won't go much beyond that in some cases unless I actually get drawn.

    Yes, some people will seemingly randomly put in for hard to get permits and then find out later that they have no way to actually hunt it, but that's all part of the system. Based on historical numbers, the Department of Fish and Game factor those things into the formula for determining the number of permits they can give out to achieve a targeted "take" on the animals. The ultimate result is the odds of drawing are not really impacted by those people who don't end up hunting for whatever reason.

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Some people rarely win anything. While I only put in for hunts I know I can do, I understand the evening-before-the-deadline people who get their picks in right before the wire. Not everybody is OCD. I do hate seeing hunts go without being used, however. Everyone should be certain they have the wherewithall to do the hunt (physical, logistical and monetary).

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Lots of people put in for multiple tags maybe even 10 or more.
    That way the odds are good that they will draw at least 1 tag a year or every few years.
    Doing full research on 10 hunts would be very time consuming and as said you may not draw one of them for years.
    People often have a general idea on each hunt but need details to complete the hunt planning.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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    Member dieNqvrs's Avatar
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    On the low end a nonresident going on a guided hunt has 100x more money invested than a resident would on a full draw application. Plus a resident has nothing else invested once they draw, except a tag needed for 2 species.

  8. #8
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    My Buddy drew TMA Sheep tag, but had done little researchon it. However, he knew he could hunt it and now has a booked flight to an areawith sheep and is looking forward to a great hunt! Iím sure as a nonresidentthere is some more stuff you need to know in order to know if you can hunt someof these tags (money being the big one).


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    Member oakman's Avatar
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    In my mind, the only research that a guy NEEDS to do before applying for a permit should be to determine if he has the needed resources to do the hunt. If it requires climbing a mountain, are you in shape? If it requires a fly out, can you afford it? Can you get time off from work during hunting season? As has been posted above, I'm not going to spend a lot of time researching all of the permits that I apply for every year. Especially for those that are hard to get. Heck, I have applied for close to 20 permits each of the last 3 years with varying degrees of odds, and all I have to show for it is a caribou permit this year (nothing the previous 2 years). All that planning time would have been wasted.

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    I put in for like 20 tags this year, am I supposed to know everything there is to know about all those hunts prior to putting in? With that being said, I don't put in for anything I know nothing about, except for the tag I won this year. Can anyone tell me where DS123 is? Will I have a good chance in seeing anything? Will this be a boat based hunt, or will I need to chopper in?
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

  11. #11
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Research, schmeesearch.

    You just fill out the draw application and see what happens. Then, if you do draw a tag your very first move is to post here and ask what kind of gun, bullets, boots, tent, food, compass, butt wipes, dog whistle, sleeping pad, long johns, and whet stone you should buy. It helps to already have an idea of what you want to do so you can argue with all the people you're asking advice from. Then....

    Once you're all geared up, you follow up with queries on how to get there, when to go, which valley to hunt, which air taxis are good and which are bad, how many animals are there and what are you supposed to do if you manage to kill one. Again, it helps to be heavily invested, emotionally, in your own pre-drawn conclusions and/or the advice of your buddy's, cousin's, brother-in-law's, babysitter's uncle who knows a guy who hunted it back in '82. I mean, what's the point of asking advice if you're not willing to be just a little bit belligerent? That shows how committed you are.

    That's how you research a hunt in the age of the interwebs.
    If cave men had been trophy hunters the Wooly Mammoth would be alive today

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    Simply because drawing is the hard part.

    I'm an Idaho resident and I applied for draws for half dozen different species in Alaska, Montana, South Dakota, Nevada, Wyoming and Utah the last several years. And of course, elk, deer, and antelope controlled hunts in Idaho as well. Some are bow, some are rifle. So each year I put in for several different species, in several states, for a couple different weapons. I drew two out-of-state tags the last 6 years. One is DM338 in Alaska this fall. Obviously, I can't make plans for every hunt I apply for. Any why should I? However, I know I have the time, money, and capabilities to try and fill those tags if I get really lucky and draw one. So I do basic research such as harvesting odds, draw percentage, public land, etc. before applying. Then if I get lucky, the logistics are the easy part.

    Redneck, congrats on your draw. Which one is it? Good luck filling it.

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    Member polardds's Avatar
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    Maybe they have done some research before they put in. Then when they draw a tag they want some more information to fill in the gaps. Maybe they put in because a buddy said it was a "good" hunt. They put in because they can. Fish and Game has the permit numbers elevated anticipating a number of people who won't even go hunt. Like an oversold airliner. Back before we had to pay and have a hunting license the urban legend was that a lot of the Greeny organizations would get their members to apply with no intention of hunting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redneck hunter View Post
    Why do folks put in for tags before they look for help and info on the area they draw. I cannot believe anyone would put in for a rare tag with no prior knowledge or research of the area. It took many hours of research and digging for info to even pick a guide for my one and only trip up north. If your a resident and gonna solo the hunt, wouldn't it make sense to do most of the research before you apply?
    I'm with you, doesn't make any sense to put in for something if you don't even know if a transporter can get you there (or will in "guide exclusive" areas that have been forming up).


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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    I put in for like 20 tags this year, am I supposed to know everything there is to know about all those hunts prior to putting in? With that being said, I don't put in for anything I know nothing about, except for the tag I won this year. Can anyone tell me where DS123 is? Will I have a good chance in seeing anything? Will this be a boat based hunt, or will I need to chopper in?
    Lucky buggar!!!!!

  16. #16
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    Dog whistle....dang knew I forgot something!
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  17. #17

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    So redneck....
    Your comparing the research involved in panning your own adventure from A to Z with choosing a guide that does all the work for you?

  18. #18
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    I put in for a lot of tags and have been fortunate to draw a few...I hunted them all (some successful, some not).

    As long as I know I can actually access the area and hunt the tag, I'll apply. If I draw, I'll do more detailed planning from there, but there's little gain to plan out 10-20 hunts per year on the off hand chance you might pull it.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    People apply for tags they know little/nothing about because it cost little on the front end ($5) and nothing on the back end (tag is free if drawn, except for muskox). How many years has it been $5 per application?

  20. #20
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stick+string View Post
    People apply for tags they know little/nothing about because it cost little on the front end ($5) and nothing on the back end (tag is free if drawn, except for muskox). How many years has it been $5 per application?
    Yep, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
    The unbelievably valuable resource that Alaska practically gives away, and then many won't even plan to hunt.
    Quote Originally Posted by fishcatcher541 View Post
    So redneck....
    Your comparing the research involved in panning your own adventure from A to Z with choosing a guide that does all the work for you?
    Condescending, simply because you are a resident.
    Redneck may very well pack his own meat out and do most everything on that mountain short of getting the 'shooter', 'non-shooter' call. How do you know his guide will "do all the work?"....and frankly he is right about this thread.

    For the same reason non-residents have great success with sheep tags in AK, they are ALL IN when it comes to these hunts. Time, money, excessive travel, mental and physical energy...
    Residents often (not always, some are very passionate about sheep hunting) don't prioritize the opportunity because it isn't valued for the special resource that it is.
    It's 'over the counter', 'sheep are in that range up that ridge'...yada, yada, yada...

    Carry on....grin.
    Proud to be an American!

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