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Thread: What's up with 223 and 5.56 ammo and an EO I've heard about?

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    Default What's up with 223 and 5.56 ammo and an EO I've heard about?

    Anybody know anything about some new EO that Obama is or has supposed to have issued related to 223 or 5.56 ammo? I've only heard rumors, but not entirely sure what it's about. I've heard some guys say it is just armor piercing ammo and then I recall reading somewhere that possibly it will affect all ammo for AR-15s. Anybody know for sure about this?

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    Interesting take on the proposed M855 ammo ban...

    http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd....g&mid=14721558
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

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    Obama is a city raised guy with a socialist attitude and believes he knows what is best for every one. He will use his ink pen to further his agenda in any way. He does not want the average citizen to own fire arms, no tyrant or elitist does. So he is now trying to ban that type of ammo. America loves him and if he could run for a 3rd term he would and the only one of the Clinton's would have a chance of defeating him. How sad and sorry our nation has become.

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    Body piercing ammo and handgun you can buy at your local Walmart, FredMeyer, Cabellas, Sportsmans Warehouse, etc. Will hunting ammo be banned next??

    454 Casull Taurus Raging Judge Magnum (designed and marketed as a self defense weapon), Hornady factory ammo...

    454 test starts at 7min. Before that he shoots 200r Buffalo Bore 45 Colt. Hits the vest at 1200fps and makes tremendous blunt force trauma. Defiantly enough to rupture the Vena Cava and/or cause a pericardial tamponade, broken ribs, punctured lungs or any combination of. 44 mag HP gets stopped but I bet factory Federal 300r CastCore 44mag would punch right through. How about 360r 45 Colt, 450gr 500L or 475L?

    What about those guys that make their own armor piercing hardcast boolits out of that toxic alloy that contains lead, arsenic and antimony?

    Any of our big bore hunting handguns and loads we use in Alaska can be classified as "dangerous to our brave law enforcement officers" and "armor piercing" if the ATF applies the same standard they are applying here regarding M855.

    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Interesting take on the proposed M855 ammo ban...

    http://www.investorvillage.com/smbd....g&mid=14721558
    Naturally keeping prices high so making shooting less affordable is a reason here (anything they can do to further restrict firearms they will) but he doesn't seem to understand the way ATF is going about this, or the definition of "point blank range" for that matter.

    ATF has re-classed this as a handgun ammunition because there are many "handguns" that fire it and fired from a common handgun it will penetrate a vest. AR handguns . . . remember everyone was worried they wanted to make the wrest braces (SIG brace) NFA/SBR? Well while we were looking at the micro view of that (we were thinking small) I suspect they were taking a macro view of the situation. They have built a test case here with best odds here, one of the most common rifle ammos is now very commonly used in a handgun "so it must be a handgun ammo" is where they are going and using the dislike of black-guns to help further their agenda. (How many here have thought to yourself "oh well, I don't shoot 5.56 anyway?) This is a VERY big deal because if this stands as they hope they can class any rifle ammo that is also used in a handgun as handgun ammo. Are there any rifle rounds that are not used in some handgun? I've seen Contender in most everything and I built three 50bmg handguns for a guy years ago.

    So reverting back to the guy's point "any rifle will penetrate police soft armor" where he concludes the ban wont stand for this reason I conclude this is why they are after M855 to start with . . . if they can re-class ammo to handgun ammo because its used in handguns then they can ban just about any ammo they want!
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    Quote Originally Posted by .338 mag. View Post
    America loves him and if he could run for a 3rd term he would and the only one of the Clinton's would have a chance of defeating him. How sad and sorry our nation has become.
    I don't think that is true, I think at this point well over half of America doesn't much like him and about 1/3 flat out hate him. In the last year or so I've heard many people say things like "I can't believe I voted for him" and such.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    In the last year or so I've heard many people say things like "I can't believe I voted for him" and such.
    Wow,

    You have actually spoken to real people that admit to voting for him? Are you still on speaking terms with them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    Wow,

    You have actually spoken to real people that admit to voting for him? Are you still on speaking terms with them?



    I have encountered some people that will admit to voting not only once, but twice for Obama..


    Usually just stare at them a bit and ask "so, on a personal level, how is that hope and change working out for you?"

    And the normal response is silence, then staring at the floor, then I get the "wow, I can't believe I voted for him" comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtbikeguy View Post
    I have encountered some people that will admit to voting not only once, but twice for Obama..


    Usually just stare at them a bit and ask "so, on a personal level, how is that hope and change working out for you?"

    And the normal response is silence, then staring at the floor, then I get the "wow, I can't believe I voted for him" comment.
    Yea that's about the way it goes . . . used to be they would double-down and argue for him but now they seem to get it. Funny thing to me is a lot of them are older folks you'd thing were smarter than that, it's not only the gullible young ones though many of then also see how badly this has all gone.


    BTW Just because I may not agree with someone doesn't mean we can't be friends, I respect their right to be stupid so long as I get the same respect in return.
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    I wonder just how many actual shootings occur using Armor Piercing Ammo anyway - I bet its pretty low. Maybe just 1 more than the 50 cal that is so awful yet has no US deaths that I am aware of, yet is one on the "hit list"... Drunk drivers kill daily yet no talk to ban taverns is there.
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smokey View Post
    Drunk drivers kill daily yet no talk to ban taverns is there.
    People lobbying to close a liquor store in Anchorage as we speak. Many communities in Alaska ban alcohol...
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    M855 is not "armor piercing" (by ATF's own definition) and ANY 5.56 round will penetrate soft body armor. The ATF case is invalid on all counts. Beyond that, there is no reason why there should be any restrictions on true "armor piercing" ammunition. They are just bullets. Some folks like to plink at scrap steel and punch holes in it. This is fun and does no harm to society. Gov't need not be involved.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    People lobbying to close a liquor store in Anchorage as we speak. Many communities in Alaska ban alcohol...
    Agreed on a local scale, not a nationwide movement like the ammo ban... Point noted though...
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    http://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fil...g_purposes.pdf



    VI. PUBLIC PARTICIPATION
    ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16,2015, and will give comments received after that date the same consideration if it is practical todo so, but assurance of consideration cannot be given except as to comments received on orbefore March 16, 2015. ATF will not acknowledge receipt of comments.
    Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multipletimes or by more than one method):

    • ATF website: [COLOR=rgb(0.000000%, 0.000000%, 100.000000%)]APAComments@atf.gov[/COLOR]. Follow the instructions for submitting comments.
    • Fax: (202) 648-9741.
    • Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs
      and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue,
      NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.
      FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Denise Brown, Enforcement Programs andServices, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives,U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226; telephone202) 648-7070.

    If you don't want to write your own letter this site makes it easy. Provided you agree with their "canned" letter.

    https://fighttheatf.org/stop-the-62gr-m855-ammo-ban/


    Here's the letter...

    Dear Ms. Denise Brown,I am sending you this letter to voice my solemn opposition to the recent publication titled, "ATF Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are 'Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes' Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(C)" and the changes set forth within it that would effectively ban the manufacture and sale of the popular 62gr M855 ammunition.While the safety of our law enforcement officers is of great importance it should be noted that the Level II and Level IIIA protective body armor typically worn by officers is characterized by its design to only minimize the danger posed by handgun cartridges. As the 62gr M855 is not a handgun cartridge, it does not pose a danger to law enforcement officers that is significantly greater than any other centerfire rifle cartridge.Upon a close inspection of the 62gr M855 cartridge you will find it does not meet the legal definition of armor piercing ammunition as it is loaded with a multi-sectional projectile constructed largely of a non-armor piercing soft lead core with an unhardened mild steel tip inside a copper jacket.Lastly, the 62gr M855 is used by and large for sporting purposes by both recreational and competitive target shooters as well as small game hunters as it is affordable and readily available on the surplus market.Thank you for your time and consideration of these facts when determining if the 62gr M855 will continue to be available to law abiding firearm owners across the country as it has been for many years.Respectfully,
    A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don’t have one, you’ll probably never need one again

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    Well at least in the short term, they are backing off. Not saying it's a dead issue. I wonder if ammo prices will hold on alaskalist?

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...-ban-proposal/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Well at least in the short term, they are backing off. Not saying it's a dead issue. I wonder if ammo prices will hold on alaskalist?

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...-ban-proposal/
    You're right. It won't be a dead issue until we get some legislation to put ATF back in their box. I suspect the prices will stay up and supply will stay low until there is some clarification on the "at this time" language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Well at least in the short term, they are backing off. Not saying it's a dead issue. I wonder if ammo prices will hold on alaskalist?

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...-ban-proposal/
    That's good to hear, I received this email this morning from Murkowski's office.

    Murkowski: ATF Backing Away from Unlawful Ammo Ban



    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Matthew Felling 202.224.9301
    March 10, 2015 or Karina Petersen 907.276.3217

    Senator: Decision a Victory for Common Sense and Alaskans’ Way of Life
    WASHINGTON, D.C. – Senator Lisa Murkowski today welcomed news from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) that it is rescinding its recent unilateral “framework,” <http://www.kcci.com/politics/gun-rights-group-fights-bullet-ban/31693452> which threatened to limit access to rifle ammunition that is used by Alaskans and sportsmen nationwide. The ATF’s proposal expressly went against the 1986 Law Enforcement Officer Protection Act, and Senator Murkowski reminded the ATF of this yesterday in a letter <http://www.grassley.senate.gov/sites/default/files/judiciary/upload/Grassley%20letter%20to%20ATF%20regarding%20M855%20 Ammunition.pdf> from her and 51 of her Senate colleagues.

    “The fact that the ATF would ignore the Constitution and the Second Amendment and the Obama administration’s attempt to ban ammunition of one of the most popular rifles is just the latest example of federal government overreach. This is also an all-too-rare example of a victory for common sense and the law. I joined my colleagues in vocalizing our concerns to the ATF Director because regulatory actions should not interfere with a law-abiding citizen's right to obtain ammunition used for legitimate purposes, such as hunting or simple target practice.”

    Background: Senator Murkowski was named Legislator of the Year by Safari Club International, and introduced the bipartisan Sportsmen’s Act <http://www.murkowski.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/pressreleases?ID=41c93ced-197b-405c-971c-f41fc13a0657> with Senator Martin Heinrich (D-NM) to reauthorize key conservation programs, improve access to public lands, and help boost the outdoor recreation economy.

    ###

    Note: Please do not reply to this email. This mailbox is unattended. For further information, please contact Senator Murkowski’s press office at 202-224-9301 or 202-224-8069. Visit our website at http://murkowski.senate.gov <http://murkowski.senate.gov>


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Well at least in the short term, they are backing off. Not saying it's a dead issue. I wonder if ammo prices will hold on alaskalist?

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015...-ban-proposal/
    Yep...short term, definitely not over...
    http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/20...framework.html

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