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Thread: "LIVE" AMMO...........what is it ??? EVIL/unpredictable/short tempered...???

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    Default "LIVE" AMMO...........what is it ??? EVIL/unpredictable/short tempered...???

    Pretty much everything about this story makes me want to PUKE. It's only redeeming value is to appreciate the skill required to "SPIN" the story, and the depressing acceptance that the public is seduced into a feeling of safety.

    http://news.yahoo.com/police-hidden-...opstories.html

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Gives new meaning to the term "man cave".
    "live ammo", huh. What is dead ammo?

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    So why was the "live ammo" even mentioned in the article? Is there an ammunition ban in california that would have made that particular ammo illegal? On another note I would love to see the reaction of the housing police, er I mean the Fresno Fire and Code Enforcement's reaction to some of the cabins in Alaska. One of many reasons Alaska is great.

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    I have this vision of the City Prosecutor saying, "You expect me to prosecute this, are you insane" ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    So why was the "live ammo" even mentioned in the article? Is there an ammunition ban in california that would have made that particular ammo illegal? On another note I would love to see the reaction of the housing police, er I mean the Fresno Fire and Code Enforcement's reaction to some of the cabins in Alaska. One of many reasons Alaska is great.

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    Supporting Member Hoyt-Hunter's Avatar
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    Police and military train with blank ammo as well as "live ammo". The terms are used for clarification to make sure they are not mixed while training.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    Pretty much everything about this story makes me want to PUKE. It's only redeeming value is to appreciate the skill required to "SPIN" the story, and the depressing acceptance that the public is seduced into a feeling of safety.

    http://news.yahoo.com/police-hidden-...opstories.html
    It's puke material four shore.

    They make it sound like it's a CRIME to have ammo.

    Note, there were TWO RIFLES. And three suspects were arrested. Among other charges, there were "Weapons Charges".

    Sounds like the Po'leese didn't tell them beans, so they made it sound as bad as they could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    It's puke material four shore.

    They make it sound like it's a CRIME to have ammo.

    Note, there were TWO RIFLES. And three suspects were arrested. Among other charges, there were "Weapons Charges".

    Sounds like the Po'leese didn't tell them beans, so they made it sound as bad as they could.

    SOTN
    It's the People's Socialist Republic of Kalifornia. If you did not buy zee ammo vis zee proper channels and display zee proper papers, your ammo is not legal and vil be confiscated!!! (slight exaggeration, I think maybe a russian accent would be more appropriate...)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    It's the People's Socialist Republic of Kalifornia. If you did not buy zee ammo vis zee proper channels and display zee proper papers, your ammo is not legal and vil be confiscated!!! (slight exaggeration, I think maybe a russian accent would be more appropriate...)

    Ha ha! That is a good one! But it is so very true, The very people who were complaining so bitterly against the straw man: "Show me your papers." (in regards to illegals), are more than happy with tons of other paper work for law abiding citizens in regards to medical insurance coverage, weapon ownership, permits of various kinds, etc. Very selective these.... um... folks about who should have to produce paperwork.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    The very people who were complaining so bitterly against the straw man: "Show me your papers." (in regards to illegals), are more than happy with tons of other paper work for law abiding citizens in regards to medical insurance coverage, weapon ownership, permits of various kinds, etc.
    Reminds me of definition I recently seen for licenses and permits- A right that the government steals from you and rents back for a fee.

    If the government could figure a way to fee (tax) illegals for being here they would enforce the laws in a minute. As it is, the illegals create a need for increased law enforcement, medical facilities, and a host of other revenue streams for the government to collect from.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    If the government could figure a way to fee (tax) illegals for being here they would enforce the laws in a minute. As it is, the illegals create a need for increased law enforcement, medical facilities, and a host of other revenue streams for the government to collect from.
    Precisely the point. Why waste so much money trying to evict people who in most cases are better, more productive citizens than most of those who advocate for their eviction; why not allow them the legal right to pay taxes on their earnings like everybody else?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Why waste so much money trying to evict people who in most cases are better, more productive citizens than most of those who advocate for their eviction; why not allow them the legal right to pay taxes on their earnings like everybody else?
    IO,

    Not to be sarcastic, but I do often see you asking for references, so to be fair please provide your references for the above highlighted portion.

    I too believe there should be a legal means for them to be here and to pay their fair share of taxes. I have no problem with anyone being here as long as they follow the laws we were born into and expected to obey (taxes, SSN, drivers license, medical insurance, pay your own way in society) As messed up as the current laws are, the fact they are not good laws does not give anyone the right to break them. As you pointed out in the recent thread that was closed, if you don't like the law have it changed (or words to that effect), until then obey the law. With changing the law I feel our nation should for security reasons and to stem the tide of illegals secure the borders first then deal with those that are here as future citizens. Otherwise we are right back to the failed agreements we had in the 80's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Precisely the point. Why waste so much money trying to evict people who in most cases are better, more productive citizens than most of those who advocate for their eviction; why not allow them the legal right to pay taxes on their earnings like everybody else?
    Your "Point" wasn't made.

    What waste of money?

    I'm sure it would be cheaper to deport them than to pay for all the services we must provide them. It's not just LE, and Medical, but also the cost of their education which is a major one. Then there is the loss of jobs.

    They may be 'more productive' than you, so you can speak for yourself in that regard.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Your "Point" wasn't made.

    What waste of money?

    I'm sure it would be cheaper to deport them than to pay for all the services we must provide them. It's not just LE, and Medical, but also the cost of their education which is a major one. Then there is the loss of jobs.

    They may be 'more productive' than you, so you can speak for yourself in that regard.

    Smitty of the North
    Most of the people who would be affected by the recently proposed legislation have been here for a long time. Many are students, business owners, etc. The assertions that they're mostly criminals or freeloaders are fabrications.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    IO,

    Not to be sarcastic, but I do often see you asking for references, so to be fair please provide your references for the above highlighted portion.

    I too believe there should be a legal means for them to be here and to pay their fair share of taxes. I have no problem with anyone being here as long as they follow the laws we were born into and expected to obey (taxes, SSN, drivers license, medical insurance, pay your own way in society) As messed up as the current laws are, the fact they are not good laws does not give anyone the right to break them. As you pointed out in the recent thread that was closed, if you don't like the law have it changed (or words to that effect), until then obey the law. With changing the law I feel our nation should for security reasons and to stem the tide of illegals secure the borders first then deal with those that are here as future citizens. Otherwise we are right back to the failed agreements we had in the 80's.
    If they followed the LAW, they wouldn't BE here. If our government followed the LAW, they wouldn't be here.

    So are you lookin for a legal means for them to be Illegal?

    Smitty of the North
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Most of the people who would be affected by the recently proposed legislation have been here for a long time. Many are students, business owners, etc. The assertions that they're mostly criminals or freeloaders are fabrications.
    So they are here illegally, which is a crime, and you say they are not "criminals"? (Because they are students, business owner, etc. and have been here, (a criminal) for a LONG TIME.)

    They have received free services, that they were not entitled to, but they are not "freeloaders"?

    Thanks for clearing that up.

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    IO,

    First, I will admit to only speed reading the article.

    Second, thou I applaud the article for its positive perspective on the virtue of civic engagement of illegal immigrant youth and their efforts to aid their portion of society, I failed to bridge the gap between those activities and who in most cases are better, more productive citizens than most of those who advocate for their eviction. Since the article is about illegal youth, a minority, to be fair and unbiased, the authors should also do a comparative analysis of the motivations behind separate racial groups to determine if all races are being fairly measured. As a white person I do not automatically equate civic involvement as being productive citizens. And when I do see white people standing up for their beliefs I often hear minorities automatically using the race card, without looking at the root concerns of the opinions of the so called white racists.

    How are we too measure a better citizen? One who is civically engaged, one who follows the laws and pays their own way in society, one who lives off government funded housing and education , one who works 2 jobs and lives at minimum wage but is too proud to take government money? Who is better? Subjective? Yes it is and can not be sourced in an article written in favor of one group.

    How do we measure productivity? Many of the same variables and more apply. Is it how much they earn, people they help, laws they get passed because they voiced an opinion while others were content to simply live their lives and ask the rest to let them be? I know many very good and productive people who only want the government to let them be. They do not want to be civically engaged, politically engaged or otherwise interactive with people in society outside their individual social group. That does not make them worse or less productive than someone "fighting" to change a system they invaded and want to change to their preference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    If they followed the LAW, they wouldn't BE here. If our government followed the LAW, they wouldn't be here.

    So are you lookin for a legal means for them to be Illegal?

    Smitty of the North
    I agree Smitty, by all our current laws they are illegal and shouldn't be here. That said, I also do not feel kicking millions of people out of the country is practical or right. So what's the recourse? Secure the borders to stop the flow. Then work with those that are here to become legalized citizens and productive members of society. They are here costing us money, the past policies have failed, and they are not going to leave. So the responsible course of action is to do the above. Once they are legalized then they will be required to pay their share of the taxes like the rest of us.

    Because yes, it all boils down to the money. A hundred years ago the government didn't take large portions of our salary for social programs. They do now on the promise that you will reap the returns down the road. Well that is not the case due to the moral demise of those taking from the system and not paying into it. So we must fix that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    I agree Smitty, by all our current laws they are illegal and shouldn't be here. That said, I also do not feel kicking millions of people out of the country is practical or right. So what's the recourse? Secure the borders to stop the flow. Then work with those that are here to become legalized citizens and productive members of society. They are here costing us money, the past policies have failed, and they are not going to leave. So the responsible course of action is to do the above. Once they are legalized then they will be required to pay their share of the taxes like the rest of us.

    Because yes, it all boils down to the money. A hundred years ago the government didn't take large portions of our salary for social programs. They do now on the promise that you will reap the returns down the road. Well that is not the case due to the moral demise of those taking from the system and not paying into it. So we must fix that.

    http://www.theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/...nsToDeport.htm

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    And the anchor babies.

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