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Thread: Changes in Bag Limits questions

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    Default Changes in Bag Limits questions

    I'm not proposing anything here, just want to see if anyone else on this forum feels at all like I do about non-residents taking home massive amounts of salmon, clams, or anything else.
    I have been in the airport watching folks check in. Box after box after box of salmon. Way more than they will ever eat, I suspect. More than I take in a year, and I eat A LOT of it. I'm guessing in many cases much of it sits in the bottom of their freezer and never gets eaten. In other cases it may be processed and sold at flea markets. We've all heard the stories, and read about it in the past when busts/stings have been made.
    I've seen people camping on the river and as soon as they get a fish (or a limit) it gets taken up to the camper where they have a generator running a freezer, or a canner going. Back to the river they go, same day. Call F&W. Do they get busted? Never that I've seen.
    Clam diggers. Same thing. Dig day after day. Most of them never have their bag limit counted.
    Sometimes I wonder if there should be a limit on how many tides they can dig with an out of state license. A limit on the total amount they can dig?
    Should there be a limit on how many pounds of salmon or seafood a non-resident can take out of state?
    O.K. I have my flame suit on. Proceed.
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    Not exactly sure what the concern is.....

    If folks are taking fish illegally, that is clearly an enforcement issue. It should be dealt with as any enforcement issue. The game wardens are good at that. If the concern is conservation, that needs to be reflected in the daily/seasonal bag limits, along with possession limits. If the issue is overweight airplanes leaving Anchorage, the airlines charge people for baggage that's too heavy. If the concern is wastage, my sense is that non-residents value their catch alot more than you might think. Most folks don't get up to Alaska very often, so they place great value on their catch since they may not be going back anytime soon.

    Yes, non-residents take home alot of fish (but less than residents). I certainly take home alot whenever I visit the Great Land. But I don't see what the problem is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    I'm not proposing anything here, just want to see if anyone else on this forum feels at all like I do about non-residents taking home massive amounts of salmon, clams, or anything else.
    I have been in the airport watching folks check in. Box after box after box of salmon. Way more than they will ever eat, I suspect. More than I take in a year, and I eat A LOT of it. I'm guessing in many cases much of it sits in the bottom of their freezer and never gets eaten. In other cases it may be processed and sold at flea markets. We've all heard the stories, and read about it in the past when busts/stings have been made.
    I've seen people camping on the river and as soon as they get a fish (or a limit) it gets taken up to the camper where they have a generator running a freezer, or a canner going. Back to the river they go, same day. Call F&W. Do they get busted? Never that I've seen.
    Clam diggers. Same thing. Dig day after day. Most of them never have their bag limit counted.
    Sometimes I wonder if there should be a limit on how many tides they can dig with an out of state license. A limit on the total amount they can dig?
    Should there be a limit on how many pounds of salmon or seafood a non-resident can take out of state?
    O.K. I have my flame suit on. Proceed.
    This THREAD a few years back discussed the same issue. It's a good idea, and thanks for bringing it up (rep sent if able).

    I've seen the same things you speak of, and I made the same comment in the aforementioned thread. Of course then Craig Medred came along, wrote an ARTICLE about it in the ADN, and called such claims a lie. But hey, it sells papers, and we all know his "reporting" skills are, well, laughable.

    An annual limit is far past due.
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    Default what the heck..

    I agree - what is the issue here?

    The tourist pay dearly for the fish they fly out of here - I've been behind them in line in the airport and seen some of the charge they pay for excess baggage etc. With the price they pay, I'd suspect much of the fish gets consumed by humans.

    Personally, I'm concerned a lot more about the fish leaving Alaskan water in fishing and processing boats heading south leaving little if any money behind for any of us.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cohoangler View Post
    Not exactly sure what the concern is.....

    If folks are taking fish illegally, that is clearly an enforcement issue. It should be dealt with as any enforcement issue. The game wardens are good at that. If the concern is conservation, that needs to be reflected in the daily/seasonal bag limits, along with possession limits. If the issue is overweight airplanes leaving Anchorage, the airlines charge people for baggage that's too heavy. If the concern is wastage, my sense is that non-residents value their catch alot more than you might think. Most folks don't get up to Alaska very often, so they place great value on their catch since they may not be going back anytime soon.

    Yes, non-residents take home alot of fish (but less than residents). I certainly take home alot whenever I visit the Great Land. But I don't see what the problem is.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Southeast Alaska is one step ahead of us. Down there residents have an annual limit for steelhead and sharks. Nonresidents have an annual limit for kings, steelhead, sharks, lingcod, yelloweye, and sablefish.

    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/re...BgSzLimits.pdf
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    King annual limit for all fishers in Bristol Bay as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskahippie View Post
    an annual limit is far past due.
    ^^ This ^^
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    Nonresident licenses are far more expensive and so is the cost of shipping fish, I bet there's a lot more waste and abuse by residents.
    I have a summer place in Homer, the nonresident friends I take out value their catches and what we take home does not get wasted.
    I here lots of stories about Alaskans abusing the limits though. Selling, Trading fish, Killing kings every day all Winter long with their freezers packed full.
    Annual limits are fine, but they need to be for residents also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redleader View Post
    Nonresident licenses are far more expensive and so is the cost of shipping fish, I bet there's a lot more waste and abuse by residents.
    I have a summer place in Homer, the nonresident friends I take out value their catches and what we take home does not get wasted.
    I here lots of stories about Alaskans abusing the limits though. Selling, Trading fish, Killing kings every day all Winter long with their freezers packed full.
    Annual limits are fine, but they need to be for residents also.
    There's a flipside to folks that "value their catches" in that they can hoard it like gold, as if i will appreciate over time. My parents did this the first two years they took fish home from a visit. Despite them knowing that they have a ready supply each year during their annual visit, they treated it like it was a special meal and when the next summer came round they still had plenty of fish in the freezer. Finally I told them to eat it like they do bluegills and deer because they can consider the supply as constant. I am embarassed to say, there may still be a few pieces from those first few years at the bottom of a freezer. But, they now enjoy it and eat it as fresh and often as possible. For a person who does not have a family contact in AK and it may be a two to three year span between trips.....I see lots of fuzzy, freezer burnt salmon in their future unless they can accept the fact that their supply is supposed to run out before they return.

    As far as annual limits for residents, um, no. It's a sad fact that when you give a person a limit, the mind often sees success only if that limit is reached. Daily bag limits still work because they are generally low. Many folks that now keep what they need or feel they need, then given a yearly limit, will likely catch and kill even more fish because there is a ceiling to the possibilities.

    Also, If you started imposing (more) annual limits on residents "WHO LIVE HERE TO USE THESE RESOURCES" you are going to create criminals out of many people who are just trying to fill their freezers the way they always have, depending on what that annual limit is.

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    All I will add is that before I moved here I would make annual trip and bring home a few coolers full of reds. Every fish was filleted by me to remove every bit of meat possible and everything that ended up in my freezers at home was used. No waste in my family. This is true for several others I know that made the same kind of trips. I can't speak with certainty about anyone but my own family and friends so I'll leave it at that.

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    There are bad apples with residents and nonresidents. I think it really depends on the region of the state and specific systems as to which group is worse. For example, Lake Creek in the Susitna Drainage is renowned for the abuse that takes place on king salmon by certain nonresident European groups, while Ship Creek in Anchorage is widely abused by residents.
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    Yep bad apples on both sides that abuse the fisheries.
    A lot of Alaskans make or supplement there livings off the non residents.
    I know what I catch the previous season gets used up completely before I will fish again the next season.
    I make a point make sure none of it get's wasted and am careful who I take out and not let them keep too much, we release large Halibut etc.
    Tighten your own belt if you want to make a change.
    The day they make annual limits for non residents only is the day I become an Alaskan resident, lots of other advantages anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    As far as annual limits for residents, um, no. It's a sad fact that when you give a person a limit, the mind often sees success only if that limit is reached. Daily bag limits still work because they are generally low. Many folks that now keep what they need or feel they need, then given a yearly limit, will likely catch and kill even more fish because there is a ceiling to the possibilities.
    I would advocate for annual limits in addition to daily limits, applicable to residents and non residents alike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    I would advocate for annual limits in addition to daily limits, applicable to residents and non residents alike.
    Absolutely.

    Regardless of gear type, is all I would add.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Just want to point out that folks who visit me often fly home with "boxes and boxes" of salmon. Purchased for ~ $1/pound at the Anchorage docks directly from the fisherman, cut, bagged and frozen at my house.

    I'm sure that there are people flying home with a bunch of sport caught fish, and that may or may not be desirable from the State's perspective, but I suspect that I'm not the only one telling my visitors that they don't need to get greedy on the river, because there's all the ocean run fish they could want available at the docks for basically a nominal price. They usually pay more to fly it home than they pay to purchase it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HikerDan View Post
    Just want to point out that folks who visit me often fly home with "boxes and boxes" of salmon. Purchased for ~ $1/pound at the Anchorage docks directly from the fisherman, cut, bagged and frozen at my house.

    I'm sure that there are people flying home with a bunch of sport caught fish, and that may or may not be desirable from the State's perspective, but I suspect that I'm not the only one telling my visitors that they don't need to get greedy on the river, because there's all the ocean run fish they could want available at the docks for basically a nominal price. They usually pay more to fly it home than they pay to purchase it.
    I buy it almost every year myself, right from the commercial fisherman. Hardly could be any cheaper to go fish for them myself when you factor in fuel, launch fees, and such. I did catch some on the river this past year, dip netted less than my limit, and bought some. Only a few fillets left in the freezer, along with one real nice silver frozen in the round and waiting to be thawed in cold water and steaked for the grill.
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    Do you have any pictures of the fisherman and his boat they buy fish from? What type of salmon are you getting for $1/pound? I sure would like to see this.
    Quote Originally Posted by HikerDan View Post
    Just want to point out that folks who visit me often fly home with "boxes and boxes" of salmon. Purchased for ~ $1/pound at the Anchorage docks directly from the fisherman, cut, bagged and frozen at my house.

    I'm sure that there are people flying home with a bunch of sport caught fish, and that may or may not be desirable from the State's perspective, but I suspect that I'm not the only one telling my visitors that they don't need to get greedy on the river, because there's all the ocean run fish they could want available at the docks for basically a nominal price. They usually pay more to fly it home than they pay to purchase it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    Do you have any pictures of the fisherman and his boat they buy fish from? What type of salmon are you getting for $1/pound? I sure would like to see this.
    I buy from a beach site fisherman who fishes late in the Northern District. I pay whatever the cannery is paying him. It's always a good deal compared to buying the salmon 'down the food chain' so to speak.
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    Default more fish more...

    We have to do everything possible to allocate more fish to the poor commercial guys!

    After all, the sport guys catch a lot of fish - around 2% of the total take as I recall. So, if the sport guys waste - say 10% - that is another .2% that could be used to line the pockets of some. And, as we all know, absolutely NONE of the commercial catch is ever wasted.


    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    I would advocate for annual limits in addition to daily limits, applicable to residents and non residents alike.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    We have to do everything possible to allocate more fish to the poor commercial guys!

    After all, the sport guys catch a lot of fish - around 2% of the total take as I recall. So, if the sport guys waste - say 10% - that is another .2% that could be used to line the pockets of some. And, as we all know, absolutely NONE of the commercial catch is ever wasted.
    I disagree. I think everything should be allocated to urban residents. They are the ones most deserving of everything since they are the biggest contributors to society. I say unlimited seasons and bag limits for all those living in cities with 100k or more people, everyone else should not be allowed to catch anything until they can prove to TV that they pay as much taxes as him.
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

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