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Thread: Yeah .454!!!

  1. #1
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    Default Yeah .454!!!

    This is why I carry my Toklat on my chest and sleep with it next to pillow while in bear country.

    http://youtu.be/H2KhI7aHLqU

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    I certainly won't take anything away from the 454 but when he tried to recreate the slugger damage with a hollow point he lost 200 grains of BAM that might react much differently with thick hide and fur. I'd stick with that 400 grainer (if I could even shoot it) and break something, run it end for end etc.

    On the flip side, if he'd used a solid slug instead of the thimble shaped slugger, he'd likely seen greater penetration and somewhat less wound channel. When I worked for hte federales, our bear training showed three slugs,.....a slugger, a sabot, and a brenneke, all that had been fired into some kind of animal or equal substrate. The Slugger was the diameter of a quarter and nearly flat (likely less penetration), the sabot was a bent hourglass (could veer off or tumble since it's long and skinnier), but the brenneke looked pretty pristine and would likely have hammered harder and deeper.

    So, I'd still say that a solid 12 gauge slug is still what I'd prefer if I wanted to truly destroy something fast, but that big ol 400 gr. 454 was a piledriver for sure.

    Cool vid.

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    Cheapest slug against highest dollar bullet/cartridge.
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    Bear in mind the perspective of the source regarding the effect of the rounds. ShootingTheBull isn't really a "hunting and backpacking" focused channel. He's more about personal protection against the 2 legged variety. So when he's talking about comparing the effects of the 2, he's not concerned about think hides or animal bones.

    But either way, kind of a cool video.

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    All three have their place. That barnes bullet is probably a heck of a deer round. I wonder how reliable expansion is. One may not always get that large of a wound cavity. 400r hard cast will go through both shoulders of anything that walks in North America. The straight line penetration is impressive. The shotgun slug speaks for itself. Great weapon if a guy is willing to carry it.

    I'd be concerned with crimp jump with the 400gr at that velocity.
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    It would have been interesting to check it against the 45-70 which is very similar in velocity and bullet weight. Catchit is right, the Brenneke slug is much more useful against an animal, especially one as large as a brown bear. I carry a 480 Ruger with 400 grain WFN bullets at 1200 fps and sleep like a baby in the tent knowing that at point blank this bullet will totally penetrate a brown bear end to end. Jim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
    Bear in mind the perspective of the source regarding the effect of the rounds. ShootingTheBull isn't really a "hunting and backpacking" focused channel. He's more about personal protection against the 2 legged variety. So when he's talking about comparing the effects of the 2, he's not concerned about think hides or animal bones.

    But either way, kind of a cool video.
    What has he accomplished, other than "Shooting the Bull" with this test?

    Considering, his test media, bears little resemblance to a Bear's BOD.

    Why, a 454, when you consider other things besides sheer power? Powerwise, 454 is impressive, but if it's about power, why not a 460, or a 500 S&W, or 45-70?

    For me, it's about my ability to shoot the gun quickly, and effectively. It's about what "I" myself can do in any likely scenario that I can imagine.

    If I were given the choice of a 454, and an appropriate Shootgun, I'd pick the shotgun, (Even though, I'm not a shotgun man.)

    BUT, I think I'd druther have a 45-70 Guide gun than the shotgun.

    Normally, I just pack one of my rifles, or a 44, and occasionally a 357. I've been comfortable with that.

    So, the test does little for me, and what I do. Except maybe, think about the shotgun a little more. BTW, Are Auto shotguns reliable enough? Do they Jam? I never heard of it, but then I don't travel in shotgun circles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    For me, it's about my ability to shoot the gun quickly, and effectively. It's about what "I" myself can do in any likely scenario that I can imagine.

    BTW, Are Auto shotguns reliable enough? Do they Jam? I never heard of it, but then I don't travel in shotgun circles.
    Like you said, for me as well, it's about what I can hit something with in a butt pucker situation. I seriously thought about the 454 but after watching some guys much bigger than myself shoot them, I opted out. I went with the Ruger 45 LC instead. And I have to say, even with the 325 grn Buffalo Bore rounds at approx 1325 fps, I really don't know how well I'd do in said butt pucker situation.........lol. I kept waiting for the gun to explode every time I shot it it was that scary........to me anyway.

    Although I've never shot slugs through it, I have a 30+ year old Browning B-80 semi auto that I can't tell you how many rounds I've put through, and I've never had it jam. Before I moved to AK. the B-80 had just came out and Gritts Gresham had just done an evaluation of it while shooting doves down in Argentina. He said in his time there he put over 1,500 rounds through it and never jammed. I ordered one shortly thereafter.
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    There was a video on the Freedom Arms website that I can't find now.

    They shot a paint can filled with water with a .454. The can was place on top of cinder blocks.

    Shooting the paint can destroyed the blocks under the can!!!

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    What a bunch of Sour Sally's, that was an awesome video that had nothing to do with brown bears!

    Now where do we get some of that gel so we can try that at home?

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    They use the "gel" because brown bears are hard to obtain in quanity and they won't hold still. (Until after the test, SOMETIMES.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    They use the "gel" because brown bears are hard to obtain in quanity and they won't hold still. (Until after the test, SOMETIMES.)

    SOTN

    LoL. That guy must not have a bear bait station.

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    Interesting and entertaining. Would love to see how the hollow point and the slug would do after impact with heavy bone, but in all honesty, I think a close up shot to the noggin with any of those is going to end the fight right quick.

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    Paint can/cinder blocks w/ .454 in this video at about 6:00 minutes.

    http://youtu.be/75pii3aSFsM

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    I sure tried to link it to the 6 minute point, but computers are hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike h View Post
    I sure tried to link it to the 6 minute point, but computers are hard.
    It's pretty impressive, all right.

    I surmise the Cement Block was broken from hydraulic effect when the paint can Exploded.

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    I agree, very impressive!
    Steve

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    I have a 400 gr hp mold for my 480. I haven't had a chance to try it on game yet, but as a torture test I shot a few rounds into glacial silt at 1200 fps to see how they fared.



    275 gr swc, 400 gr hp with the nose blown off, 400 gr hp. Next time I'll have to bring a yard stick to compare the depth of penetration vs. a 400 gr lfn. From previous tests in the silt with the 400 gr lfn the hp didn't penetrate nearly as deeply, but still over a foot of penetration and the permanent channel was much larger in dia, almost fist size vs about the dia of a can of tomato paste for the lfn.
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    You polluted, "glacial silt" ??

    You're in a heap a trouble boy.

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  20. #20

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    Both projectiles are almost the same weight, both projectiles are moving at nearly the same velocity. The Remington Collins/hollow based slug is much larger in diameter and softer than the hardcast 454 bullet. Expecting this slug to match the penetration of the 454 is sheer foolery. Slugs tend to flatten upon impact and the increased diameter reduces penetration the hardcast bullet however should stay near its launched diameter and have increased penetration.
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