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Thread: Resources Tax Revenues and Comparisons

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    Default Resources Tax Revenues and Comparisons

    What I've been posting on this forum for years- a comparison of how our resources are taxed:

    http://www.adn.com/article/20141230/...n-when-it-ends

    As the articles points out - now that the oil revenues are running out, other users that profit from Alaska's resources may now be required to pay some significant taxes!
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    You can compare that to a state like michigan, where the last 4 years have seen taxes shifted to the people rather then the businesses. Now they want another 1.2 billion from the people every year in the form of a hike in the sales tax. 10 million people now asked to pay 3.6 billion more in taxes....do the math.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

    Edwin Hubble

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    Default somebody has to pay the bills...

    People are fat, dumb, and happy as long as the easy money flows their way.

    In Michigan it was the car companies and associated industries - but then that golden goose nearly died when the japs showed up with better products.

    In Alaska we became addicted to the easy oil money and ignored the other sources of income - the fishing, lumber, tourism, and mining industries - got away with paying almost nothing in taxes for decades as the subject article points out.

    Now our own goose is laying fewer and smaller eggs and the state is going to start looking around for other sources of income.

    The next few years are going to be VERY interesting unless the oil prices and production both increase. Industries and individuals are both going to have to get used to paying some significant taxes for the privilege of being in Alaska.


    Quote Originally Posted by GrassLakeRon View Post
    You can compare that to a state like michigan, where the last 4 years have seen taxes shifted to the people rather then the businesses. Now they want another 1.2 billion from the people every year in the form of a hike in the sales tax. 10 million people now asked to pay 3.6 billion more in taxes....do the math.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    For us it will mean a four year increase over 1500 for my family of four over what we payed each year. The yearly taxes are close to $6000 a year to live in the country with little to no services and bad roads. Even if Alaska has to charge half that to live in the sticks, Alaska is still the place to be.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

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    TVF, check the Alaska Journal of Commerce. http://www.alaskajournal.com/Alaska-...y-pollock-cod/

    Are these Federal fish quotas? Im amy event. what is your proposal for taxing this activity, and how do you propose to implement it?

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    Default fish taxes

    I'm not proposing to do anything - just stating the obvious: the state is going to have to look for revenue from sources other than oil.

    States with oil production off their coasts share in that wealth; Alaska will want to do the same if production moves further offshore over time. It would appear to me that we should also share in the wealth off fish caught off our shores even if they never set a fin on shore. Of course Washington state will fight us hard over that idea; they suck up too much wealth from Alaska while paying little or no taxes to us.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tee Jay View Post
    TVF, check the Alaska Journal of Commerce. http://www.alaskajournal.com/Alaska-...y-pollock-cod/

    Are these Federal fish quotas? Im amy event. what is your proposal for taxing this activity, and how do you propose to implement it?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Much the same way as Michigan had to do rather then the automobile. The problem is how much is to much for what you get.....

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    Go figure, Look at who wrote the article. Who takes Medred serious anyway. He's just anti-commercial fish. If commercial fish paid 100% of the taxes he would still find something to complain about.

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    I can't understand where Craig was going with this piece other than trashing the commercial fishing industry. Does he think we should increase taxes on the fishing industry and lower them on the oil industry? Is he for higher taxes all around, or does he feel, like I do, that now is a great time to take a hard look at the budget and work towards smaller and more efficient government?

    I find this argument so silly - yes, we should consider the action of (common-owned) natural resource extraction when considering taxation and state government funding, however raising taxes substantially on commercial fishing would effectively be raising taxes on thousands of locally owned small private businesses harvesting a surplus renewable resource. Yes, I know the seafood industry includes some major corporations, but much of the harvest #'s Craig quotes comes from independent fishermen such as myself - the majority of whom do not put all of that money in their pockets, but rather spend it in their communities - on goods and services provided by their neighbors in private industry rather than government.

    I also find it ironic that the same writer constantly speaks to the importance of Alaskans having access to our fish, and in making this argument he often ignores the substantial market value of this seafood. Mr. Medred, if you feel that Alaska needs more revenue from the harvest of this resource in a time when money is tight, do you feel that you should be able to pay nothing for the fish you put in your freezer? Or the fish that is sent out of state to friends and relatives? If we should raise taxes on the fishing industry, wouldn't it then make sense to feed the poor huddled masses top ramen rather than some of the most expensive seafood in the world? After all, we don't get to fill our tanks with free oil and gas , do we?

    I for one welcome the economic discussion, so long as it is fair and sensible. Judging an industry simply by how much it pays in state taxes regardless of the local jobs and economic stimulation it provides is foolish.

    If we as Alaskans decide that state government should be getting a larger payout from the harvest of our fish, we should examine harvest on all levels, regardless if those fish leave our state to be sold as commercially harvested seafood, as a carry-on from a recent visitor, or in the freezer of a resident.

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    Default How much?

    Do you think the commercial fishing industry should pay any taxes at all? Is the present rate fair -too much, too small?

    How about tourism, lumber, and mining? Should those industries - like commercial fishing- pay almost nothing in taxes?

    All these industries - just like the oil industry - support jobs and the Alaska economy. However- the oil industry alone supports high paying year round employment directly and indirectly - it is not a seasonal employer paying minimum wages.

    Bottom line- why do we expect the oil industry to carry all of the cost of supporting the state while the other industries pay almost nothing?


    Quote Originally Posted by kodiak kid View Post
    Go figure, Look at who wrote the article. Who takes Medred serious anyway. He's just anti-commercial fish. If commercial fish paid 100% of the taxes he would still find something to complain about.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    How about tourism, lumber, and mining? Should those industries - like commercial fishing- pay almost nothing in taxes?

    All these industries - just like the oil industry - support jobs and the Alaska economy. However- the oil industry alone supports high paying year round employment directly and indirectly - it is not a seasonal employer paying minimum wages.
    It's not true that oil is the only one of those listed that supports high paying year round employment. Mining certainly does, and in many cases so too do tourism and fishing. Lumber, of course, has as well, though that industry has declined dramatically in Alaska.

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    I am not trying to make this political, just making an observation. ... in the mid west states republican governors have moved the tax burdens to the people and not to the businesses. Alaska has had republican governors which have taken a few cues from the governor's caucus. Don't be surprised if Alaska wakes up one morning and all of its tax burden is on its people and not it business.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

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    Time to restructure hard rock mining taxes and royalties and get Pebble off the back burner.

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    Time to stop giving out free cell phones and meals to people who would rather spend their money on beer and cigarettes.

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    No company really pays tax the end user of its products do. Tourist,fish and timber can be taxed for a thousand years but oil only till it runs out.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    tvfinak the tax that is collected from commercial fishing might seem nothing to you but I assure you that its a huge expense to me. I employ one deck hand every summer for my small business and he makes well over minimum wage. Though it is seasonal for my deck hand its a great wage for a collage or a high school student. There are far more small business like mine than there are Oil companies. I don't see how you can compare my small business to a Mega Business like Shell or BP. If my small company made multi billion every quarter it would be easier to pay more taxes but I don't. I guess I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Surly a Multi Billion dollar company can absorb more tax burden than a small company like mine. If the small business go out of business do to the tax burden is the oil companies in a position to employ all the people that are out of a job? Probably not. Im not sure where I going with this other than I don't see how the fishing industry can be compared to the oil industry.



    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Do you think the commercial fishing industry should pay any taxes at all? Is the present rate fair -too much, too small?

    How about tourism, lumber, and mining? Should those industries - like commercial fishing- pay almost nothing in taxes?

    All these industries - just like the oil industry - support jobs and the Alaska economy. However- the oil industry alone supports high paying year round employment directly and indirectly - it is not a seasonal employer paying minimum wages.

    Bottom line- why do we expect the oil industry to carry all of the cost of supporting the state while the other industries pay almost nothing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    No company really pays tax the end user of its products do. Tourist,fish and timber can be taxed for a thousand years but oil only till it runs out.
    Will... Highly doubtful we will have to worry about running out of oil. They are still finding new areas with oil and still finding new methods for extraction. By the time it does dwindle we will be using another NEW source of energy.
    At any rate, rest assured oil will be around for quite some time.
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    Default Agreed!

    THAT we CAN agree on! Thank You

    And how about those Alaskans that live in rural areas and contribute little or nothing to the common good and yet demand fast internet access, heavily or free telephone services, fuel subsidies, free medical care, free education for their kids etc. etc. and use the infrastructure our taxes paid for when the do come to town. We could certainly cut some state spending if more people were required to support THEIR CHOICE of life styles.

    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Time to stop giving out free cell phones and meals to people who would rather spend their money on beer and cigarettes.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    I'm glad folks believe that what's happening here won't happen there. Prediction: Within 10 years the wonderful people of Alaska will be paying all of the tax burden and business will not. This will happen in order to attract more jobs to Alaska just like what is happening in the mid west.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

    Edwin Hubble

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