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Thread: Commercial recommendations??

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    Default Commercial recommendations??

    Can someone recommend a good commercial operator that can fill MY freezer for me this upcoming year. Those dang commercial guys have made it so I can not fill MY freezer by myself, so I am forced to go through them to get MY fish. I feel I should be able to go out 5-6 days a week and keep 2 halibut throughout the summer, and now I cannot do that, it really sucks. I am now not able to feed my family throughout the year, we may be forced to eat some of those nasty freezer burned reds in the freezer from 09.
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    Can someone recommend a good commercial operator that can fill MY freezer for me this upcoming year. Those dang commercial guys have made it so I can not fill MY freezer by myself, so I am forced to go through them to get MY fish. I feel I should be able to go out 5-6 days a week and keep 2 halibut throughout the summer, and now I cannot do that, it really sucks. I am now not able to feed my family throughout the year, we may be forced to eat some of those nasty freezer burned reds in the freezer from 09.
    -Grin-

    Likely any number of Commercial Charters should be able to assist you.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    Can someone recommend a good commercial operator that can fill MY freezer for me this upcoming year. Those dang commercial guys have made it so I can not fill MY freezer by myself, so I am forced to go through them to get MY fish. I feel I should be able to go out 5-6 days a week and keep 2 halibut throughout the summer, and now I cannot do that, it really sucks. I am now not able to feed my family throughout the year, we may be forced to eat some of those nasty freezer burned reds in the freezer from 09.
    Point taken!

    Seriously, I think we all agree there is a place for the charter industry - they provide some good things, and there are plenty of fish and plenty of room for them in the fishery. But the question begs, have they enabled sport fishermen from what good old-fashioned sport fishing really is - catching his own fish using his own hard-earned means, methods, equipment, and knowledge? Have they made access too easy, and at the expense of the resource and other users? Do they really provide access to the fishery, or do they just make existing access easier? Are our local halibut fisheries in Homer, Deep Creek, Ninilchik, and Seward, etc. really sport fisheries, or have they become guided charter fisheries, much like our Kenai River?

    Hoose35, maybe we are a dying breed. What drives us do it all ourselves?

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    Check with a charter out of Homer they are looking at cost share trips for repeat clients on the closed charter days. Cost share would be fuel, bait, and other allowed items. It will give charter crews a chance to harvest crew fish and reward loyal clients. It will be great for them not having to worry about looking for under 29in on that day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    Check with a charter out of Homer they are looking at cost share trips for repeat clients on the closed charter days. Cost share would be fuel, bait, and other allowed items. It will give charter crews a chance to harvest crew fish and reward loyal clients. It will be great for them not having to worry about looking for under 29in on that day!
    Just get the charters starting to do this and everyone will be punished - the bottom line is the resource has limits and those who try to circumvent the regulations will just get more and tougher regulations for everyone. But greed knows no bounds.

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    Heck, just come on down to SE. There's more than one "self guided" halibut lodge with more to come. Drive your "own" rented boat! Heck, you might even get lucky and get a hot tip about where to fish from the lodge "mother boat" that cruises around not guiding but only to make sure no one has run out of gas! They've swamped a few, and occasionally get lost in the fog running around blind at 30 knots but no one has died yet so it's got to be safe for all, right? At least you'd be beating that longliner out of a nickel, and can't keep enough on a charter boat to feed the family down in UT these days!

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    You tell me why this is not OK. It is going on every day out of Homer by "fishing clubs" and "Boat time shares" and other guys that just take out 50 friends a summer. So why can't a guy that cant keep fish when chartering take out friends for cost share trips? No iaws to stop it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Just get the charters starting to do this and everyone will be punished - the bottom line is the resource has limits and those who try to circumvent the regulations will just get more and tougher regulations for everyone. But greed knows no bounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    No iaws to stop it!

    And somewhere, someone sitting at a desk just said..."Challenge, accepted".....
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Someone said halibut was 20-some-odd bucks a pound somewhere, didn't they? That stacks up pretty good against a $60 barrel of oil, doesn't it? Giving away more and more of OUR fish is not very smart, economically speaking.

    In my mind, it's wrong for the same reason that allowing the Personal Use or subsistence fisheries to grow unabated is wrong. It's not in the best interest of Alaska or Alaskans. This is a limited and valuable resource.

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    First question is who is the "OUR" ? I do feel that steps should be taken to limit the harvest of halibut by all sport fishermen. I am sure that at some point all sport fishermen will have limits placed on them. I see that it is going to be done in baby steps. As long as charters can't retain halibut on days that they run charters they have the one new day off a week to use their boats to fish for fun with who ever they want just like any other boat owner, and have the right to share costs for that day. I no longer have a charter, I sold it and now gillnet in Cook Inlet. On days drift gillnetting is not open I use my boat to catch halibut with friends, and share the cost of fuel and bait and what not. Is that wrong? If so why? How is that it is OK for a private boat owner to cost share, but not a charter operator on his/her day off if they want to? Halibut are a fed fish not a state fish and belong to all US people, not just Alaska or Alaskans.

    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Someone said halibut was 20-some-odd bucks a pound somewhere, didn't they? That stacks up pretty good against a $60 barrel of oil, doesn't it? Giving away more and more of OUR fish is not very smart, economically speaking.

    In my mind, it's wrong for the same reason that allowing the Personal Use or subsistence fisheries to grow unabated is wrong. It's not in the best interest of Alaska or Alaskans. This is a limited and valuable resource.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    First question is who is the "OUR" ? I do feel that steps should be taken to limit the harvest of halibut by all sport fishermen. I am sure that at some point all sport fishermen will have limits placed on them. I see that it is going to be done in baby steps. As long as charters can't retain halibut on days that they run charters they have the one new day off a week to use their boats to fish for fun with who ever they want just like any other boat owner, and have the right to share costs for that day. I no longer have a charter, I sold it and now gillnet in Cook Inlet. On days drift gillnetting is not open I use my boat to catch halibut with friends, and share the cost of fuel and bait and what not. Is that wrong? If so why? How is that it is OK for a private boat owner to cost share, but not a charter operator on his/her day off if they want to? Halibut are a fed fish not a state fish and belong to all US people, not just Alaska or Alaskans.
    I admittedly don't know much about halibut regs, but I consider "OUR" to be all Alaskans. When they are caught near our shores and landed in our ports, we should harvest the resource responsibly, both ecologically and economically speaking. I believe this for halibut and salmon alike, regardless of how they are classified.

    Yes, I have used a commercial boat for sport plenty of times as well - nothing wrong with that. I have never used it to kill the very stock for which my commercial fishery was currently closed due to low abundance... At least I don't remember doing so and if I did it was ethically questionable

    The other obvious difference would be if, instead of friends, you were taking customers or potential customers out fishing - essentially building your business portfolio at the expense of the resource you were closed to conserve - possibly (likely) while writing the incurred fuel and wear/tear expenses off on your business while your crew received cash tips for the trip. Many charter crew hands are single young people - where do they store all this personal use fish they catch on their off days? Likely much of it is given away.

    It's no different than what happened on the Kenai for many years - when guiding hours closed, some guides just went back to camp and grabbed a boat without their logo on the side of it. Some of them even kept baiting customers' hooks. I don't fish the river as much as I used to, so I can't say that it still happens, but I know it did and it was wrong IMO.

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    Just a couple of points. First - fish and game are owned by the citizens of the United States in common not by citizens of one state or one group of people close to the location where they spawn or rear. This provincial attitude causes all types of problems in United States resource management. One has to look at what is best for the resource and what is best in the broadest public interest. Therefore, with a species like halibut or salmon that migrate across boarders one should not use the term "our" fish or "our game" or "our birds". The debate should be what is in the best public interest. In some cases that means one group or state or nation gets less because they provide less to the public good.

    MGH55- it is not O.K for a commercial group to circumvent the allocation rules and as tbsmith points out it is unlikely clients meets a definition of friends just because they paid for a fishing trip for a week and now want a free day. You and I both know that argument is weak and the action of the charter industry doing this is unethical relative to the purpose of the regulations. The difference with boat clubs you used is that there are no clients paying a commercial operator. It is a club and that is a major difference.

  13. #13

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    Without jumping off the philosophical ledge, I believe using the term "our" is completely appropriate in this instance as it relates to responsible harvest/development. A sense of ownership is a good thing when it promotes responsibility and stewardship. OUR economies and communities depend on these fish and their (responsible) harvest. "Our" is used in the collective sense, and can be as inclusive of exclusive as one chooses to define it, however I suspect the overall premise of ownership over these animals is the root of your disagreement, and I do not share the same view. And that is perfectly ok in my book.

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    When I had my charter out of Homer. I made and still have many friend that were clients. This will not happen every day that charters can't run, but I know charters that fish winter kings every day that they can even with no paying clients on board. They do it to stock up on halibut that they were not able to harvest earlier in the year. I have gone out with them, and let them have my halibut that day. So with the closed day they now will have a chance to take family and friends at a cost share during the summer. If you look at boat time shares, and fishing clubs the person running them is making money just like any other time share. I know a charter Capt that runs a boat for a fishing group, and is listed as a member. He is paid by the year to take care of the boats, and operate the boat if no one can do to insurance. It is the best job he has ever had. As a member of the group he can take out friends on any day no other members of the group want to use the boat. The only thing that is required to operate the boat because of insurance is a CG license.

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    Given the amount of meat that comes off of a halibut, how many days a year do these guys have to go out to "stock up"?

    I would think that the harvest efficiency of a rental boat is much lower than that of a charter boat.

    Nothing wrong with being a fish addict, but MG do you know what the fine is for wetting a net on a closed day? Pretty sure they'd take your boat, no?

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    I know that the rental boat will do only as well as who is using it. The no charters on thur may keep a drifter from wrapping a net around a charter out of Deep Creek this year. As to how many days to stock up my house 1, but I like to help those in need. I have never been corked on a closed day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Without jumping off the philosophical ledge, I believe using the term "our" is completely appropriate in this instance as it relates to responsible harvest/development. A sense of ownership is a good thing when it promotes responsibility and stewardship. OUR economies and communities depend on these fish and their (responsible) harvest. "Our" is used in the collective sense, and can be as inclusive of exclusive as one chooses to define it, however I suspect the overall premise of ownership over these animals is the root of your disagreement, and I do not share the same view. And that is perfectly ok in my book.
    Ownership is the problem and how words are used really count - I have heard so often in Cook Inlet fisherman say Sockeye are commercial fish and kings sportfisherman. This has led to lots of conflict. In truth, most people in the State do not fish and yet they in total represent a majority share of the ownership of the resource. The flounders of this country knew what private ownership meant in Europe and thus implemented common ownership here. In the State of Alaska Constitution this is re-enforced with the charge to manage for the public good.

    However, I am not sure with what you disagree. Do you think ownership should not be in common? If not why not?

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by gbflyer View Post
    Heck, just come on down to SE. There's more than one "self guided" halibut lodge with more to come. Drive your "own" rented boat! Heck, you might even get lucky and get a hot tip about where to fish from the lodge "mother boat" that cruises around not guiding but only to make sure no one has run out of gas! They've swamped a few, and occasionally get lost in the fog running around blind at 30 knots but no one has died yet so it's got to be safe for all, right? At least you'd be beating that longliner out of a nickel, and can't keep enough on a charter boat to feed the family down in UT these days!
    Self guided operations in SE have been around for a really long time. Nothing new here. The "hot tips" has been recently outlawed.

    Pretty amazing the safety record of the charter fleet and self guided operations here in SE.

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    typed flounders of this country - got to love how the brain works when fish get into the discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Ownership is the problem and how words are used really count - I have heard so often in Cook Inlet fisherman say Sockeye are commercial fish and kings sportfisherman. This has led to lots of conflict. In truth, most people in the State do not fish and yet they in total represent a majority share of the ownership of the resource. The flounders of this country knew what private ownership meant in Europe and thus implemented common ownership here. In the State of Alaska Constitution this is re-enforced with the charge to manage for the public good.

    However, I am not sure with what you disagree. Do you think ownership should not be in common? If not why not?
    I do not disagree at all. I think, regardless if one views these fish as a state or federal resource, Alaskans should insist that the fish taken from our shores to be managed in the best interest of Alaskans.

    Yes, ownership is a problem when it's used to exhibit greed, such as in YOU are catching MY fish, but not when it's used to encourage stewardship, as in WE need to responsibly manage OUR fish.

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