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Thread: Copper Dipnet limits increased

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    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    If Mr. Medred cares about food security for Alaskans as much as he pretends to, why can't he find space in his articles to mention that many Dipnetters would be better off (with regards to cost and time) buying their salmon from a commercial fishermen? Those who do it for the Alaskan experience should know it's not about getting as many as you can as fast as you can - something that this type of bag limit encourages, IMO.

    I see in the proposal book that locals drafted a proposal for an ADFG checkpoint to verify PU permits and bag limits. Did that proposal pass?

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    How would dipnetters be better off by buying fish from a commercial fisherman?

    I enjoy the experience and time it takes to dip at Chitna and have foregone the Kenai sh*t show to make my way to Chitna. Check points? At a time with declining oil prices and red-ink budgets? Lmao!! Good luck with that one. Anything to protect the commercial monopoly, huh? Feel the same way about hunting? Use commercial services or go without?

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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    I prefer to harvest my own fish & game as well...
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Wouldn't checkpoints violate the 4th amendment? Not sure how its justifiable without probable cause. I know they have sobriety checkpoints some places, and I don't think those are legal either.

    25 isn't a big deal. They usually put out an e/o upping the limit anyway. They didn't even really throw us a bone, it just looks like it.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Wouldn't checkpoints violate the 4th amendment? Not sure how its justifiable without probable cause. I know they have sobriety checkpoints some places, and I don't think those are legal either.

    25 isn't a big deal. They usually put out an e/o upping the limit anyway. They didn't even really throw us a bone, it just looks like it.
    I don't think a Fish and Game checkpoint violates the 4th amendment. Checkpoints are very common in the lower 48, especially during deer season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    I don't think a Fish and Game checkpoint violates the 4th amendment. Checkpoints are very common in the lower 48, especially during deer season.
    And they would not be new up here either. They had checkpoints set up for the original Tier II hunt for caribou in unit 13.

    EDIT: With regards to the 4th Amendment, I don't think that would apply simply because you would be agreeing to subject yourself to a possible search when you sign your name on the hunting/fishing license. This is how it is for hunting. By signing your license, you are agreeing to allow LEO's to check you without any other probable cause.

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    I'm not a sheep hunter but I have heard of check points checking sheep hunters.
    I've also heard there used to be moose checkpoints here on the Peninsula on Swanson river road.
    I definitely support them for Dipnetters. Iv'e heard quite a few stories from people of their over harvesting in years past.
    When you factor in what the average family from anchorage or the valley spends in a weekend of dipnetting in Kenai and compare that to the dockside price for fresh commercially caught red salmon i'm convinced it's cheaper for most of them to buy it at the dock.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    How would dipnetters be better off by buying fish from a commercial fisherman?

    I enjoy the experience and time it takes to dip at Chitna and have foregone the Kenai sh*t show to make my way to Chitna. Check points? At a time with declining oil prices and red-ink budgets? Lmao!! Good luck with that one. Anything to protect the commercial monopoly, huh? Feel the same way about hunting? Use commercial services or go without?
    Many dipnetters would be better off buying fish from a commercial fishermen (if the intent is to fill the freezer) for a variety of reasons such as time, money, and risk of success. Yes, even at the recent high price of fresh fish, it pencils out to buy from a fisherman if you live many hours away, have a job or a limited schedule, and are trying to cost/time-effectively fill your freezer. Mr. Medred paints the picture of the big bad "commercial monopoly" trying to keep Alaskans from putting fish in their freezer when in fact the commercial fisheries make it easier for many Alaskans to do just that.

    Yes, I feel the same way about hunting. While filling my freezer with moose or caribou every year is a major priority, I also enjoy the family experience and respect the time/money it takes to have a responsible, enjoyable, and hopefully successful hunt. I don't EXPECT to kill something, or claim that since it is a far drive to the hunting grounds I've chosen I should be able to kill more animals, and I don't argue that it's my right to fill my freezer with moose every year, or expect that it should cost me less than what I would pay from the butcher. I don't blame "commies" or ADFG if "my" moose does not walk through my camp on Saturday morning and I have to miss a few days of work or go home empty handed. I hunt because I want myself and my family to have the Alaskan experience - which is NOT all about how much you can get how fast. That's why I don't participate in the run-and-gun unit 13 hunting show up north which gives me the same ball in my stomach as watching what you call the Kenai sh*t show in my backyard. Yes, more enforcement and checkpoints for both thank you very much.

    I did not kill a moose this year and will likely be purchasing meat from a commercial vendor rather than blaming them for my lack of hunting prowess...

  10. #10
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    it is so much cheaper to buy local commercial fish in anchorage than go get your own. Here's an example. I brought home to anchorage 10 pounds of Alaskan jumbo king crab from work in Portland last week. It was 9.99 a pound at freddies. Way cheaper than getting my own. Half price in Oregon compared to Alaska too.

    I mostly have a problem with quality. The commercial caught fish in the stores does not compare with the quality that I get from DIY.

    Besides the experience is worth it for me to spend quality time with family. Don't get that at New Sagaya very often.

  11. #11

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    Wasn't trying to say that you'd be better off buying Seafood at a retail outlet, or that everyone would be better off buying rather than dipping. I just think that Craig could sacrifice even one sentence to inform people that it is legal and quite cost effective to buy fresh salmon straight from the commercial fishermen he hates so much. That is, if he actually cared about Alaskans filling their freezers. But we all know that's just his schtick. It would tone down the divisiveness a lot if dipnetters looked at commercial fishermen as potential suppliers rather than commie competition, and if the commercial fishermen looked at dippers as potential customers rather than, well, however they look at them.

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    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullelkklr View Post
    it is so much cheaper to buy local commercial fish in anchorage than go get your own. Here's an example. I brought home to anchorage 10 pounds of Alaskan jumbo king crab from work in Portland last week. It was 9.99 a pound at freddies. Way cheaper than getting my own. Half price in Oregon compared to Alaska too.

    I mostly have a problem with quality. The commercial caught fish in the stores does not compare with the quality that I get from DIY.

    Besides the experience is worth it for me to spend quality time with family. Don't get that at New Sagaya very often.
    So let me get this straight,,,,,

    I could buy gas to go from Delta ( Fairbanks ) down to anc. to buy a fish that has been handled I don't know how many times cheaper than it would be to go to a place half that distance and get it first hand ?

    Need a little clarifiction on that one.

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    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Wasn't trying to say that you'd be better off buying Seafood at a retail outlet, or that everyone would be better off buying rather than dipping. I just think that Craig could sacrifice even one sentence to inform people that it is legal and quite cost effective to buy fresh salmon straight from the commercial fishermen he hates so much. That is, if he actually cared about Alaskans filling their freezers. But we all know that's just his schtick. It would tone down the divisiveness a lot if dipnetters looked at commercial fishermen as potential suppliers rather than commie competition, and if the commercial fishermen looked at dippers as potential customers rather than, well, however they look at them.
    I'm not sure what the price straight for a commercial fisherman would be. I'll throw a couple theoreticals out there; Reported upper cook inlet dock price was $2.25/lb, round weight. Standard retail markup of 40% puts it at $3.75 a pound. Copper River reds had a dock price of 4.50. Standard retail off that would be $7.50. There is a much higher value to Copper River reds over Kenai reds... it takes half the fish to achieve the same monetary value.

    At wholesale price, 100# of Cook Inlet sockeye would cost $225. Marked up to retail, with no middleman between wholesaler and retailer, it would cost $375. That is to buy 16 salmon at an average of 6 pounds each. No family of four that I know of goes dipnetting with the hope or expectation of catching 16 fish; the limit is 55, so they hope to catch 55, and expect to catch a good portion of that.

    Buying Copper River sockeye, at an average of 6 pounds each, a person could only buy 8 sockeye for $225. 100 pounds would cost $450 to $750. Good luck convincing Alaskans that that is a better deal than going out themselves and catching 3 or 4 times that amount, at a fraction of the cost!

    Our dipnetting trip this year cost about $200. And we enjoyed a weekend camping trip and lifelong memories for my child and family; that alone was worth the cost, the fish were practically a bonus! We ended up harvesting much more poundage of fish than we could have bought for the same money, and shared it between three families who pooled resources for the weekend.

  14. #14

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    Willphish I don't have the patience to engage you on the numbers again. We've argued this point before and you know that for many people the cost of buying dockside fish pencils out even with the outstanding price of salmon the last few years. If the price dips it will be a no-brainer for many people. After all, that is the point of commercial enterprise - economies of scale. Why do you continue to misinform those who are not aware that they can purchase fresh premium quality fish from fellow Alaskans cheaper than they can buy farmed salmon from Safeway or Costco, or in many cases cheaper (and safer) than they can harvest themselves?

    If you make the argument that you can come to Kenai and only spend $200 to get your fish for the winter I can make the argument that your fishery has no economic or positive effect on my community and given all the social, environmental, and economic costs involved it is probably not in the best interest of the Alaskan public.

    I know for a fact that most people spend more that $200 on a trip to the Kenai to dipnet. I support the fishery while recognizing the need for limits and change. I don't support the misinformation that many of those who support and lobby for this fishery spread.

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    Member Delta Tenderfoot's Avatar
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    Personally, The worst day fishing (dip netting) is still better than any day at work (or shopping in a crowded store).

    "men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." - Henry David Thoreau
    All paradise rests in the shadow of swords." ~K. Yates

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    Quote Originally Posted by Delta Tenderfoot View Post
    "men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." - Henry David Thoreau
    I guess Thoreau didn't dipnet much. I bet he'd have a blast on the Kenai...

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    Hey smith, this thread isn't (wasn't...) about the Kenai, can't you go post your sound byte in one of the other thirty or forty threads about that instead?

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    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post
    Hey smith, this thread isn't (wasn't...) about the Kenai, can't you go post your sound byte in one of the other thirty or forty threads about that instead?
    No, it was about making the Copper like the Kenai. And I got you to comment, didn't I?

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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    I seriously doubt that the Copper dipnet will ever be like the Kenai dipnet...
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tearbear View Post
    I seriously doubt that the Copper dipnet will ever be like the Kenai dipnet...
    Why do you doubt that? I seriously doubt anyone thought the kenai dipnet fishery would be what it is today? Do you think it's above humans to turn the Copper into the same kind of atmosphere?
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

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