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Thread: Pelt friendly ammo?

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    Default Pelt friendly ammo?

    I own an ammo company in Indiana and I ship to Alaska Custom Firearms in Anchorage. They want me to ship some cases of ammo for the fur hunters. So I am trying to see what all you use. We don't hunt for pelts down here we rather like blowing our coyotes in half. I have read that almost all the factory loads are just to fast. I can manipulate the speed to help control the damage.
    As for calibers? One of my problems is brass availability. I am limited on cartridge choices. That is just the battle we deal with. My last shipment was all 10mm that was easy to deal with. This one is more complicated.

    What calibers do you use?
    Can you get that ammo?
    What is your optimal velocity?

    Thanks for your input and hopefully Alaska Custom Firearms and myself can help out.

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    Default Pelt friendly ammo?

    We'll I'll give you my opinion although I've only taken 2 animals, a coyote and a lynx.

    I took those animals with 69gr Sierra hpbt @ about 2500 fps out of a .223 (ar-15). That speed was actually measured from a buddy's gun with my hand load, which is why I said about. Both had tiny entrance holes an about quarter sized exits. I did not recover a bullet in either case. This load is very easy to shoot 1/2 MOA out of my gun. Both animals were shot at a verified 55 yards. This load worked for me and I never worried about the slow velocity since it was accurate at 100 and that's all the further I can normally see when calling.

    I have since moved to nosler protected point and TTSX bullets with a similar load. I don't own a chrony so I haven't measured them. I figured a little expansion couldn't hurt.

    My opinion is that a relatively tough bullet at relatively slow speed is optimal. I thought a partition would be perfect but they were just not accurate out of my gun.

    I know there are other guys who have been very happy with frangible bullets at high speed, which is the other well accepted school of thought I'm familiar with but I have no personal experience with it.

    As far as caliber in general I would be surprised if .223 wasn't the biggest market but I bet .22-250 and .204 wouldn't be far behind. I know some wolf guys that really like .243 too.


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    For performance of an FMJ I thinking of the Lapua Scenar they have a thick jacket. I think the Vmax in small calibers are great but as for even the 223 a Vmax within 100rds can blow a big hole. Does anyone use the 300 Blackout or even the 6.8 SPC? I might have access to to 90gr Copper Solids for the 300 Blackout. Anyone use the 260, 6.5 Creedmoor or 308 for wolves or any other game? Would a 308 heavy subsonic give a good result.

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    As was stated in an earlier post - probably the 223 is the MOST used fur caliber, in a center fire. Other 22 ca;iber center fires would probably be next. The calibers you mentioned in the previous post (with the possible exception of the 308) would NOT (IMO) be regular choices for fur hunters. If you can't supply something in a 223 load, you'd be looking at a very small market.

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    A couple things... all bullets at high velocity will tear big holes in fur- esp. cats. Really frangible bullets will tear big holes in fur even at fairly low speed.

    The best performance I've seen has been the .22 Hornet. Enough speed to make hits to 150yds+ but not so much to destroy a pelt. I'd think if you could replicate the Hornet in a .223 case....ie. 55-65gr at around 2500fps you'd have something that works. Most of the existing varmint loads using highly frangible bullets at maximum velocity are for evaporating prairie dogs- not harvesting fur.

    I've also used the .308WIN using 150gr SP at 1500fps with Trail Boss and it works very well. Clean holes on both sides and easily sewn.

    Predator calling is usually a relatively close range affair and, at least in my experience, just not much shooting past 200yds.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    A couple things... all bullets at high velocity will tear big holes in fur- esp. cats. Really frangible bullets will tear big holes in fur even at fairly low speed.

    The best performance I've seen has been the .22 Hornet. Enough speed to make hits to 150yds+ but not so much to destroy a pelt. I'd think if you could replicate the Hornet in a .223 case....ie. 55-65gr at around 2500fps you'd have something that works. Most of the existing varmint loads using highly frangible bullets at maximum velocity are for evaporating prairie dogs- not harvesting fur.

    I've also used the .308WIN using 150gr SP at 1500fps with Trail Boss and it works very well. Clean holes on both sides and easily sewn.

    Predator calling is usually a relatively close range affair and, at least in my experience, just not much shooting past 200yds.
    Have you had a hard time finding 22 Hornet ammo...???
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Default Pelt friendly ammo?

    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Have you had a hard time finding 22 Hornet ammo...???
    I just loaded up a batch of 22 hornet for a buddy who lent me his gun. Cool little round. Very delicate brass though. 22 bullets, appropriate powder, and primers are plentiful on the KP. Does anyone have any experience with the 40 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip around 2550 fps muzzle? Thought there was a chance they would be overly explosive but... They look so darn cool. Haha

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWHUNTER View Post
    I just loaded up a batch of 22 hornet for a buddy who lent me his gun. Cool little round. Very delicate brass though. 22 bullets, appropriate powder, and primers are plentiful on the KP. Does anyone have any experience with the 40 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip around 2550 fps muzzle? Thought there was a chance they would be overly explosive but... They look so darn cool. Haha
    I tried them out of my 16", 1-8 twist AR and never got better than 2" in a gun that shoots heavier stuff under 1" so I never did anything with them.

    I believe many people have no trouble shooting lighter bullets out of a 1-8 barrel but mine sure doesn't like them! Even 55s of a few different choices won't shoot under 1" in my gun but 62s, 64s and 69s all shoot sub MOA.

    I think you'd be sorely disappointed in te performance of them on a wolf though?


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    Quote Originally Posted by limon32 View Post
    I tried them out of my 16", 1-8 twist AR and never got better than 2" in a gun that shoots heavier stuff under 1" so I never did anything with them.

    I believe many people have no trouble shooting lighter bullets out of a 1-8 barrel but mine sure doesn't like them! Even 55s of a few different choices won't shoot under 1" in my gun but 62s, 64s and 69s all shoot sub MOA.

    I think you'd be sorely disappointed in te performance of them on a wolf though?


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    The gun is a Savage 340e which has a slow twist rate... 1-14 or 1-16. So if she has a problem with the load it probably won't have the same reason as your ar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWHUNTER View Post
    The gun is a Savage 340e which has a slow twist rate... 1-14 or 1-16. So if she has a problem with the load it probably won't have the same reason as your ar.
    I agree they would probably stabilize just fine in such a gun. I don't hear them talked about much on the other forums I read, not sure why.


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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Have you had a hard time finding 22 Hornet ammo...???
    I haven't bought any in ages- but at the time I found it readily enough. These days it's a real toss up as to what is available.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    What would you consider a fair price for 50rd box of:

    22 Hornet 40GR Varmeggeddon
    22 Hornet 50gr SP
    223 Rem 70gr SP 2500fps

    Will talk to Alaska Custom Firearms about your suggestions. I am not shipping ammo so it can become overpriced wallpaper.

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    I can't comment on the price since I haven't ever bought any kind of premium .223 ammo but I think your bullet choice is all wrong.

    It's going to take 1-7 or 1-8 barrels to stabilize that bullet and that's predominately ARs. Your leaving out a big segment of bolt guns with that bullet.

    I don't know that particular bullet but I also wouldn't call it tough. Might be ok at that slow of a speed but it wouldn't be my first choice, or second or third...


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    I have read the 60gr. Vmax would work good at the slower speed. I just want a tough enough fragmenting bullet that will pentrate the pelt at a low velocity before exploding on the outside of the pelt first. Like I said earlier we we hunt to kill our coyotes and we leave them where they lay. And we like big holes. I am looking at this as your ammo is working and ours is fun ammo. Big difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kruger View Post
    I have read the 60gr. Vmax would work good at the slower speed. I just want a tough enough fragmenting bullet that will pentrate the pelt at a low velocity before exploding on the outside of the pelt first. Like I said earlier we we hunt to kill our coyotes and we leave them where they lay. And we like big holes. I am looking at this as your ammo is working and ours is fun ammo. Big difference.
    Check out the nosler solid base bonded, I think it's 64 gr, not sure if the 1-10 guys could stabilize that or not. It's basically a tough soft point. It was very accurate in my gun.


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    I use a 22 hornet when I think my shots are going to be 150 yrds or less. Over that I take me 243 with full metal jackets. They are loaded about 3000 which is the most accurate out of my tikka. There should be two pencil size holes when you are done. One in and one out.

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    I've shot a few critters and here's the ammo that I'd like to see on the shelves.

    .22mag FMJ....Works and works well on Fox, Coyote, and lynx.

    6PPC with 80grain FMJ bullets. In Lapua brass please....just kidding, but the hands down most accurate and best performing predator caliber I've used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowcamoman View Post
    I've shot a few critters and here's the ammo that I'd like to see on the shelves.

    .22mag FMJ....Works and works well on Fox, Coyote, and lynx.

    6PPC with 80grain FMJ bullets. In Lapua brass please....just kidding, but the hands down most accurate and best performing predator caliber I've used.
    What range did you shoot the coyote with the .22 mag?

    What kind if gun is your 6ppc?


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    I've shot coyotes out to 130 yards with the .22mag

    The 6PPC is a NULA, perfect for those long days on the snowmachine.

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    I've always heard 6mm 80gr fmj @ 2800-300fps was ideal for fur of all sizes. The sierra 40gr hp is designed for light speed and isn't as explosive as you would guess at lower 2400-2600fps. I shot then for fur work out of a 22hornet and later a reduced load in 222. It worked very well at calling distances on fox and cats.

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