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Thread: Unusual groups with Remington in 35 Whelen

  1. #1
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    Default Unusual groups with Remington in 35 Whelen

    I recently purchased a Remington 700 Classic in 35 Whelen. It came from the original owner's estate and appears to be unaltered in any way. The only change I have made was to make the trigger pull lighter which it needed badly.


    What puzzles me is how it shoots. I use a target printed on a regular piece of paper. The first shot will be four inches high and one inch to the left. The next shot will be about an inch lower and to the right. Then the next two or three shots will almost touch each other at two inches high which is where I want it to shoot. This is using Federal 225 grain Bonded Bear Claw ammo but it does the same thing, to a slightly different point of aim, with Remington CoreLokt 200 grain ammo.

    My question is what to do about the first two shots. I have had lots of rifles that would shoot a good group for the first two or three shots and then wander up or to the side. Free floating the barrel usually fixes that. Bedding is certainly a good idea. Since this is backwards to my usual experience I wanted to get ideas on how to fix this situation from more experienced people before doing anything myself.
    NRA Life Member since 1974

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    It sounds as though it is consistent which doesn't make me think action bedding but maybe. It is very common for cold bore shots to be flyers compared to the group, its the cold bore we care about in hunting.

    Anyhoo, holding your hand at the front of the stock touching the barrel brake your action screws loose as you feel for movement, tighten/loosen/tighten/loosen as you feel. If you have mag base and dial indicator to put on barrel and indicate stock movement better yet. If the action is well bedded there should be no movement there and the screws should go from loose to tight all at once, screws that are snug for 1/4 turn or more are sucking the action into poorly fitting bedding and need addressed . . . exception is stocks with up pressure I'm about to talk about, that you just got to develop a feel for over checking lots of guns.

    Now if the action bedding checks out . . . Barrel should be free floated at least to pass a dollar bill except that many barrels like some up pressure at the front of the stock. So if not floated make it so, if it is and has no up pressure now try adding some by sticking a business card in there to shim the front and see if it likes that.

    Remingtons usually want up pressure because they are often a very light whippy barrel couture. Also the Remington wood stocks (other brands too but very common on Rem) often twist a tad over time so you get contact with the side of the barrel which is very injurious to accuracy.


    So, go play and let us know what ya find.
    Andy
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    Responses and more information on the problem.

    I have tried two scopes on the rifle and started with a Leupold VX 3 2.5 - 8 using Talley lightweight mounts. Then went to a Zeiss Conquest 3 - 9 with DNZ huntmaster mounts. Both scopes have been on other rifles and are known to work properly. Bases were new. In fact the Leupold had been on a previous 35 Whelen Classic I owned and sold. Same groups with both scopes.

    All scope mounting hardware with both scopes was torqued to the factory suggested inch pounds and I used blue loctite too. Action screws torqued to 40 inch pounds front and rear.

    It has been in and out of the stock several times. Always possible but I do not think there is any binding or problem with the mag box.

    When I go to the gun club I always fire at least four rifles in sequence. While I have not timed it, there is probably a minimum of five minutes between firing the same rifle twice.

    Several boxes of ammo came with the rifle. All of it was reloads with cast lead bullets the guy had made himself. I tried them and a five shot test was all over the target. Probably a six inch group and the rest of the reloads were tossed out.

    I thought the bore might be fouled from the lead. The bore appeared clean and shiny to the eye. I still ran some Hoppe's number 9 bore cleaner through it followed by clean patches. Nothing to indicate problems there. Since then I have not cleaned the barrel at all. Not even pulling a bore snake through it.
    NRA Life Member since 1974

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    Take it to a gunsmith and have it pillar bedded. Then shoot some.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    It sounds as though it is consistent which doesn't make me think action bedding but maybe. It is very common for cold bore shots to be flyers compared to the group, its the cold bore we care about in hunting.

    Anyhoo, holding your hand at the front of the stock touching the barrel brake your action screws loose as you feel for movement, tighten/loosen/tighten/loosen as you feel. If you have mag base and dial indicator to put on barrel and indicate stock movement better yet. If the action is well bedded there should be no movement there and the screws should go from loose to tight all at once, screws that are snug for 1/4 turn or more are sucking the action into poorly fitting bedding and need addressed . . . exception is stocks with up pressure I'm about to talk about, that you just got to develop a feel for over checking lots of guns.

    Now if the action bedding checks out . . . Barrel should be free floated at least to pass a dollar bill except that many barrels like some up pressure at the front of the stock. So if not floated make it so, if it is and has no up pressure now try adding some by sticking a business card in there to shim the front and see if it likes that.

    Remingtons usually want up pressure because they are often a very light whippy barrel couture. Also the Remington wood stocks (other brands too but very common on Rem) often twist a tad over time so you get contact with the side of the barrel which is very injurious to accuracy.


    So, go play and let us know what ya find.

    Its the the good stuff I learn like this.... That's why I continue to read these Forums...

    good stuff

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