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Thread: DAM-NATION... now available on NetFlix

  1. #1
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default DAM-NATION... now available on NetFlix

    ... as a watch it now feature.






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    Seen the trailer pop up here and there, but never had a chance to see this film til now. Watched it with LMWS just now and eyes and ears were transfixed. We could not turn it off for even a second.


    This is truly a visual MASTERPIECE of cinematography!


    The narration is BRILLIANT.


    The message CRYSTAL clear.


    Hat's off to the brave and passionate people making these things happen and kudos to the folks raising awareness through these documentary films. Risking their reputations, their jobs, and even their lives to make a bold statement.


    Matt Stoeker is a stud! Yvon Chouinard is the model of sensible corporate environmental awareness!


    Well done... WELL DONE!
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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  2. #2

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    Nice flim.

    Pretty one-sided, just like any convincing documentary. Amusing that they couldn't find anyone who was articulate and under 65 to explain the positive aspects/effects of any mentioned dam. Nothing against seniors, just an observation. Pretty sure they could have left in some choice quotes from an acid-baked tree-sitter or two which would have leveled the playing field a little.

    I wish, in their discussion about Columbia Gorge wind farms, they would have mentioned how many wind turbines it would take to replace The Dalles or Bonneville dam at capacity, or that sometimes the wind does not blow while the mighty Columbia rolls on... They raised a ton of great issues though, and I appreciated that their message was muted in the sense that they realized tearing down every dam would not be a good thing, just that we should re-think many of the poorly planned and aging dams. Dam terrorists in their Kayaks! Loved some of the cinematography. Good for those guys sticking their necks out for what they think is right.

    Best quote:

    "You cannot have a creature come in from the ocean and enter the extreme state of vulnerability that is spawning in shallow water unless the people in that watershed agree to greet this wild creature with great compassion and sensitivity."

    Doc, do you know much about the organizations pushing the Susitna Dam? It would be interesting to know who has been lobbying for it. I was shocked to find that some of those most involved and influential people in Alaskan sportfishing lobbying were also paid lobbyists for the Pebble Partnership. Tangled web of politics I guess...

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    Member Andy82Hoyt's Avatar
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    I watched it a few weeks ago and it opened my eyes. I never realized how many dams we really have in this county and how some can be devastating over time. I would really hate to see a **** built on the Susitna. These guys put themselves out there to make this film and did a great job in my opinion.


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    Ok, I hadn't looked into the Susitna Hydro Project much. Didn't realize this was a State Funded endeavor. I have to say that I am not a huge fan, but Alaska has a serious problem with affordable energy. I would still love to know what special interests are pushing this project along...

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    I would still love to know what special interests are pushing this project along...
    Pebble. Recall that an open pit mine will need colossal amounts of power. BB has no such source of energy. Where will it come from?

    Just connecting the dots.....

  6. #6

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    Good point. They will probably need a road and natural gas too....

    Sometimes it's interesting to look and see who owns what land. Tells a lot about who is pushing what when it comes to things like Susitna Dam, Pebble, the Knick Bridge, LNG, etc.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cohoangler View Post
    Pebble.
    Doubtful.

    Donlin Creek will be supposedly using natural gas from a $1+ billion line they plan to build from Nenana to Crooked Creek. The State can take that line from there to Bethel, Y-K Delta, Bristol Bay, etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Ok, I hadn't looked into the Susitna Hydro Project much. Didn't realize this was a State Funded endeavor. I have to say that I am not a huge fan, but Alaska has a serious problem with affordable energy. I would still love to know what special interests are pushing this project along...
    I really do not think this is true relative to affordable energy. I guess one has to define affordable. In that context, the Permanent Fund comes from our natural resources. One could argue that the rebate more than pays for our energy use or significantly reduces it on an individual level. Second, we have higher electrical rates but not that far off from New England and Mid-Altantic States and our natural gas costs are low relative to the rest of the country according to Dept of Energy figures.

    If you want to know special interests pushing this look to large scale development plans on the west side of Cook Inlet. Tyonek has a city planned for 5000, an aluminum plant, industrial complex, and then one goes down the west side to the coal/ oill complex and on to Bristol Bay and Pebble. Of course the Mat/Su is looking for future industrial development and growth.

    One final note - Susitna hydro is not cheap compared to other sources of energy. The hearing on this project in the Legislature pointed this out very clearly and one reason utilities in Anchorage have made other plans for long term energy supplies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    I really do not think this is true relative to affordable energy. I guess one has to define affordable. In that context, the Permanent Fund comes from our natural resources. One could argue that the rebate more than pays for our energy use or significantly reduces it on an individual level. Second, we have higher electrical rates but not that far off from New England and Mid-Altantic States and our natural gas costs are low relative to the rest of the country according to Dept of Energy figures.

    If you want to know special interests pushing this look to large scale development plans on the west side of Cook Inlet. Tyonek has a city planned for 5000, an aluminum plant, industrial complex, and then one goes down the west side to the coal/ oill complex and on to Bristol Bay and Pebble. Of course the Mat/Su is looking for future industrial development and growth.

    One final note - Susitna hydro is not cheap compared to other sources of energy. The hearing on this project in the Legislature pointed this out very clearly and one reason utilities in Anchorage have made other plans for long term energy supplies.
    I will admit I have not compared our energy prices to national averages. I bet when combined and averaged, our costs are quite high.

    Individuals receive permanent fund checks. Businesses do not. They pass the savings on to the customer, so to speak. So the price of energy is reflected in nearly all of the goods and services we as individuals utilize and the permanent fund checks do not begin to cover this.

    Additionally, the cost of energy affects many businesses' choices of where they plant roots. Affordable power and fuels (energy) is a major factor considered by businesses/corporations when selecting locations.

    Lower cost of energy = lower cost of living. And the cost of living in Alaska is not cheap.

    While we are on the subject of who is lobbying for what, I noticed that a company called Nickel, Inc. owns property in Nikiski, some of it on the bluff right over some setnet sites near prime deep water dock area. Due to the location, I would assume it was purchased in hopes of moving minerals from Pebble, but will likely now get bought up in the LNG project. Funny, it looks like Nickel Inc's home address is Penland Parkway... Some conservationists!

  10. #10

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    Did some looking on energy prices. Natural gas is relatively cheap here, but electricity is among the highest - second only to Hawaii due to the abundant gas we burn for power. And I can see my lawn in December.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Did some looking on energy prices. Natural gas is relatively cheap here, but electricity is among the highest - second only to Hawaii due to the abundant gas we burn for power. And I can see my lawn in December.
    Your premise on business locations is out of date, especially for Alaska. Many other variable that are more important than energy costs and as you said natural gas is cheap here. Also the difference between Alaska (the table you used is an average for Alaska which includes rural Alaska. The cost is urban areas is more in line with other states.

    Also, you cannot ignore the PFD relative to energy savings. A half billion dollars is not a small amount. Also, our cost of living in urban and road connected rural areas is not as expensive as some lower 48 states. It use to be but not anymore when you factor in a lower tax rate. For example for me to move to Oregon would cost me about 5k a year more than living here ( this assumes no house payment to deal with).

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Your premise on business locations is out of date, especially for Alaska. Many other variable that are more important than energy costs and as you said natural gas is cheap here. Also the difference between Alaska (the table you used is an average for Alaska which includes rural Alaska. The cost is urban areas is more in line with other states.

    Also, you cannot ignore the PFD relative to energy savings. A half billion dollars is not a small amount. Also, our cost of living in urban and road connected rural areas is not as expensive as some lower 48 states. It use to be but not anymore when you factor in a lower tax rate. For example for me to move to Oregon would cost me about 5k a year more than living here ( this assumes no house payment to deal with).
    Yes, pumping $130/brl oil out of the ground helps solve a lot of issues relative to taxes and costs... Doh!

    I will admit that Anchorage electricity prices are more in line than I thought. But even Anchorage prices are considerably cheaper than Kenai with regards to electricity, at least from what I saw. Not quite sure how the importance of cost of energy to business location is outdated.

    http://laborstats.alaska.gov/col/col.pdf

    So I guess the answer to no dam is drill baby drill?

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    No the answer is energy conservation and efficiency. Less so on efficiency. Conservation means giving up a service while efficiency means doing the same job for less. In the case of energy efficiency there is debate about how it saves energy and how effective it is. One example is that you put in more insulation to reduce heat loss but then kick up your temperature in the house because it costs the same as prior to insulation upgrading. In contrast, conservation means that you do without the service. So turning off lights in your house is conservation and does save energy.

    I found a couple of articles where BP actually reduced their energy use by 30% through conservation and efficiency at their facilities. It was done by doing a full energy audit and then making the most effective changes. Other articles show similar savings so in my mind HEA would do well to try and convince the public to use less. In the case of gasoline prices we saw consumption go down as fuel costs went up. People do adjust when they have to do it. The trick is to make conservation and efficiency actions into a self interest goal not some global goal.

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    Well right now the leading energy efficiency programs in our state are funded directly from oil revenue, which is currently dropping like a drunk on an icy sidewalk.

    I guess my point is that there is currently no way out of this pinch other than drilling, damming, mining, etc, whether it is to provide energy, build energy efficient appliances, or provide funding for energy efficient incentives. Best we can do for now is be responsible about it. Or build more nuclear plants... Conservation and efficiency are important, but they produce nothing.

    Just a note, while natural gas is cheap here, the most efficient form of heat is electric, with much less maintenance. If we could produce it clean and cheap, we could burn less gas in our homes. But right now the cost of electricity makes if cost prohibitive if oil or natural gas is an option.

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    Here is a quote that comes to mind (not sure of the origins) :

    "Economics as a discipline has never even considered the implications of a no-growth steady state economy."

    (Well, looking it up, apparently Stella Marrs - all kinds of info pops up on the philosophy. Wikipedia:

    "The steady state economy is an entirely physical concept. Any non-physical components of an economy (e.g., knowledge) can grow indefinitely. But the physical components (e.g. supplies of natural resources, human populations, and stocks of human-built capital) are constrained and endogenously given. An economy could reach a steady state after a period of growth or after a period of downsizing or degrowth. The objective is to establish it at a sustainable scale that does not exceed ecological limits.")
    "Punish the monkey - let the organ grinder go" - Mark Knopfler

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 Bronco View Post
    Here is a quote that comes to mind (not sure of the origins) :

    "Economics as a discipline has never even considered the implications of a no-growth steady state economy."
    And to be certain, that statement is not complimentary toward the discipline of economics.
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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    No ifs ands or buts... our money system is completely dependent on exponential growth.

    If you've got some time to devote to learning about the interaction of energy, economy, and environment, you owe it to yourself to check out the Crash Course.

    http://www.peakprosperity.com/crashcourse

    Once you start watching these short videos, you won't be able to stop.

    Happy viewing.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    No ifs ands or buts... our money system is completely dependent on exponential growth.
    Should go without saying, that exponential growth is the ideology of the cancer cell...
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Should go without saying, that exponential growth is the ideology of the cancer cell...
    Speaks directly to the base issue. If and when mother nature levels the playing field (by appearances, the trend), it may sink in.

    (+1 if I had the ability.)
    "Punish the monkey - let the organ grinder go" - Mark Knopfler

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