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Thread: Setnet ban initiative signature drive - facts not necessary.

  1. #1

    Default Setnet ban initiative signature drive - facts not necessary.

    Just thought I'd pass this on. Local setnetters have recieved multiple complaints from people who have encountered setnet ban signature gatherers who have bent the truth or flat out lied about what the initiative is while gathering signatures - even going so far as to say it is to conserve the kings and omitting anything about banning setnets even when specifically asked. Coincidentally, my wife had an encounter much like this in Anchorage - the guy said "save the king salmon, sign this petition". When she said no he said "You don't want to save the salmon?" He got an earful of facts and suggestions after that

    An inquiry was made with the gov's office, and as it turns out there is no requirement that petitioners tell the truth when attempting to get an initiative on the ballot. What a handy coincidence for the KRSA boys. Oh, sorry I meant the AFCA boys.

    Apparently there is an initiative signature drive tomorrow (Nov 25th) from 10-Noon at the Soldotna Public Library. I am posting this because I'm confident it will garner more disgust than support from peninsula residents. Feel free to stop by and fact check these con artists.

  2. #2
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    Yep A man at Carr's a couple months ago was selling the same BS. "Save the Kings". I told him it was the biggest bunch of bull, He got all defensive as I turned and walked away. Sad really

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    The guys collecting signatures probably could care less about a set net. They get paid by the signature, so save the fish is a catchy slogan and they get paid.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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  4. #4

    Default Setnet ban initiative signature drive - facts not necessary.


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    There is a lot of "The ESSN catch Kings", but I have never seen any size or age distribution for these Kings. There was a lot of angst over some ESSN having a king release system over the summer. So, what is the king catch size distribution over a typical summer for the ESSN? No trade secrets, but a combination of direct net catch and roll-ups ought to somewhat reflect actual river returns, but there is no confirmed data that I can find. Anyone?

  6. #6

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    I made this graph from the data I could find last year. It doesn't show the age/size data of the actual return - if I remember right that info was a little less dependable but I will have to find it again. Ironically, the best age/size data we have for these fish is the ESSN harvest. And it is steadily decreasing both in relative age/size and usefulness...

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  8. #8

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    Can anybody chime in with a status update on the initiative? I must not be paying attention close enough, but I thought the judge ruled that this initiative violated the Alaska constitution?

  9. #9

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    Lt. Gov Treadwell said it was not constitutional. Superior court judge said it was in a terrible decision. It is before AK supreme court on appeal now I think, but nothing stopping them from getting signatures while lying their arses off in the meantime.

  10. #10

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    http://peninsulaclarion.com/opinion/...#comment-22888

    Not real convincing Joe. Sorry buddy.

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    Joe Connors article in the paper today is full of lies and misrepresentations. He sits on the KRSMA Board and knows better than this. I have lost all respect for Joe Connors as a person. As far as I am concerned DNR should remove him from the KRSMA Board and people should turn their backs to him when they see him. It is one thing to disagree on an issue but to outright lie and know you are doing it goes far beyond the issue.

    This is very typical of KRSA approach to issues.

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    I just stopped in and had to chime in.... SmithB, getting a little worried, are you? Your posts on here and also ADN makes a person thinks you are. No worries, just a thought!!! Good luck

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    Fighting against lies and corruption isn't "worry". Given that all but one of the comments on that article are against that moron Joe's position, I'd say Smith is in the majority (one of the worst articles I've ever seen on the Clarion, the editorial staff needs some serious ear-bending about allowing such garbage to be published).

    This entire initiative stinks about as much as the stupid pot initiative. And the signature gathers appear to be the same low information crowd. Sickening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    Fighting against lies and corruption isn't "worry". Given that all but one of the comments on that article are against that moron Joe's position, I'd say Smith is in the majority (one of the worst articles I've ever seen on the Clarion, the editorial staff needs some serious ear-bending about allowing such garbage to be published).

    This entire initiative stinks about as much as the stupid pot initiative. And the signature gathers appear to be the same low information crowd. Sickening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    I just stopped in and had to chime in.... SmithB, getting a little worried, are you? Your posts on here and also ADN makes a person thinks you are. No worries, just a thought!!! Good luck
    You know whop2000 - for a person who I thought respected other people and could feel some compassion for their situation, given your health issues, I would have expected you to understand that you are threatening the very basic security of families here on the Peninsula. I am hoping you change your position on this initiative and speak out against it for a number of valid reasons. So far the people pushing this initiative have made no valid reasons for it other than wanting more fish to catch themselves.

    It is unfortunate that with serious budget cuts, an ADF&G with new leadership, resources being threatened by uncontrolled urbanization on the Peninsula, habitat damage due to in-river use increases, hydro development on the Kenai, climate change impacts on our rivers and stream ecology, invasive species and lack of any serious planning the representatives of the sport fishing groups and PU fisheries cannot put aside allocation issues and come to the table in an honest and ethical way. Instead they push for more division and create strife and hate in our community. They should look in a mirror and see what kind of person they have become.

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    I was walking across the UAA campus last month and within one block I encountered four signature collectors. I asked each of them to explain what they wanted me to sign and not one of them could. I told each of them that they should at least know what they hold in their hands. Plenty of students were signing, many of them out of state students.
    I have such a hard time trying to decide which outdoor activity to do every chance I get!! Living in AK is a mental challenge

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    Default "Ballot box" biology is supposed to be unconstitutional

    On the legal front, Judge Easter's ruling allowing the initiative to go forward is one of great importance to the future of fish and game management and allocations to various user groups.

    Here's Judge Easter's order:
    http://www.elections.alaska.gov/peti...ster-Order.pdf

    They key parts are that the initiative does not "appropriate a public asset" and that it does not "result in a give-away program or usurp legislative control over the salmon allocation process."

    When you stop and think how this kind of initiative wording (if legal) could effect so many fish and game methods and means of harvest ... it is pretty darn serious (and crazy). Honestly, Judge Easter's ruling defies reality and logic if you think just how far something like this could go. So the BOF could "alternatively" authorize new gear types for setnetters, like fish wheels and seines ... what about fish traps?

    The repercussions if the AK supreme court allows this initiative to move fwd are absolutely huge. Every hunter and angler and fisherman and guide should oppose this just on those grounds.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    I just stopped in and had to chime in.... SmithB, getting a little worried, are you? Your posts on here and also ADN makes a person thinks you are. No worries, just a thought!!! Good luck
    I am worried about our big kings but I am not worried about your initiative. I believe that the supreme court will see that it is local and special legislation, and an attempt to allocate a state resource via the ballot box - all of which are unconstitutional. Secondly, I am confident that if it came to a vote of the Alaskan people they would support commercial fishing.

    Actually I am confident that this initiative was a serious tactical error, and one which will help many now see just how stupid and selfish AFCA/KRSA's agenda is. Oh, lets not forget your baby, SCADA.

    I noticed you are still listed on the AFCA board despite your email to me several months ago that you were having second thoughts. Was that just a ploy to cool the heat about the SCADA fraud?

    Whop, I work hard and pay my taxes. I am not worried about a darn thing except that my kids will likely never get the thrill of wrestling a man-sized salmon. If by some miracle you put my family out of business, we will go fish somewhere else, where we will contribute to the local economy and pay taxes.

    Yes taxes - something that hard working individuals and illegitimate non-profit organizations must pay. I hope yours are in order. No worries, just a thought... Good luck with that.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Secondly, I am confident that if it came to a vote of the Alaskan people they would support commercial fishing.
    That's what worries me the most if this is put to a vote. There are more sport fisherman in Alaska then there are commercial fisherman. And you know the Penney propaganda machine will spend the most money to get their message out.

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    I am thinking a vote would be great. First, the major cities and representatives from around the State will not support this - could happen in their communities. Native groups will not support it as UCI has a number of native fisherman. Most legislators will not support it, the Gov will not support it, and if their is a strong Commissioner ADF&G will not support it. Put this all together and it isolates this radical bunch of selfish individuals for what they are and when the vote comes in against them their power is gone. I saw this with the subsistence vote back in the early 80's - the people pushing the vote against subsistence lost all power for decades and today are basically gone.

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