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Thread: Sentences handed out in wanton waste case

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    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    Default Sentences handed out in wanton waste case

    http://www.ktuu.com/news/news/coast-...-case/29840578

    Knowing the source, there is likely more to the story. Interesting to see if the ducks had been breasted out, and most of the meat removed from the deer. If it happened like reported, 5 cases of wanton waste received an extremely lenient sentence!

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    No more than a slap on the wrist for these guys. What a joke! Deer meat is some of the best out there and I would love to have some right now.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willphish4food View Post
    If it happened like reported, 5 cases of wanton waste received an extremely lenient sentence!
    Original story: http://juneauempire.com/local/2014-1...e#.VG-BRoeFWM4

    Followup story: http://juneauempire.com/local/2014-1...s#.VG-Ax4eFWM6

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    No more than a slap on the wrist for these guys.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    And they where/are Officers to boot?


    The DA dropped the ball on this one, big time. The investigating Troopers recommended criminal charges, and instead the DA opted for the lesser violations....And fined them a paltry sum. Top that off with the CG likely not pursuing anything more than a stern lecture....

    ....And these guys are charged with patrolling our waters and protecting US???


    "We didn't know the law" was their defense.....Nice precedent, officers.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    As for those guys knowing, or not knowing our game regulations...Is there ANY State that allows wanton waste? I doubt it.
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    And the list just grows and grows.


    #TundraTrucks
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    And the list just grows and grows.


    #TundraTrucks
    #cultureofdisrespect
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    #cultureofdisrespect

    #entitlement
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Typical. So these guys knew enough about the rules that they needed to buy NR licenses and tags but they didn't know it's illegal to kill a deer only to cut off it's antlers and throw the carcass by the side of the road?

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Typical. So these guys knew enough about the rules that they needed to buy NR licenses and tags but they didn't know it's illegal to kill a deer only to cut off it's antlers and throw the carcass by the side of the road?
    ...And we pay their salaries......
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Those are super low sanctions for those offenses. Usually there would at least be restitution to the state (set by schedule), possible forfeiture of weapons, loss of hunting and/or fishing privileges for an amount of time. I wonder if the reporter didn't grasp the full sentence or if they really were that low.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    ...And we pay their salaries......
    Roger. It's too bad that their bosses wont take steps to rectify that!!

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    Hey guys, I'm a huge advocate for meat care and consider myself sensitive to potential hunter violations concerning salvage and preservation. That said, I would consider the terminology the report uses to clarify the charges filed against these two soldiers.

    The differences between "failure to salvage" and "wanton waste" are pretty significant, although many people use the term wanton waste more often to mean both violations...they're not the same, nor do they carry the same legal weight in retribution or conviction.

    Failure to Salvage Edible Meat is the lessor of the two violations. It means that the hunters attempted to salvage the meat but left enough behind to warrant a legal penalty, which is subjective and handled differently depending on the citing officer. I've seen Failure to Salvage citations handed out to hunters who left 3-5% of edible meat on a moose carcass (20-30 lbs respectively), and some cases involve much more than 5% potential yield from a big game animal.

    Wanton Waste is more egregious by law. Cases where hunters are cited for wanton waste typically involve hunters obviously having no intentions of salvaging meat of the big game animal (such as taking the horns and leaving the animal to waste). Alaska court systems usually hand out stiff penalties for wanton waste violations, whereas failure to salvage edible meat citations may often seem like a slap on the wrist to sensitive observers like many of us.

    Just thought I'd throw that out there for curious hunters. I wouldn't bash these soldiers and suggest that they aren't fit for duty. Oftentimes Failure to Salvage can be corrected through better education, and mild retribution might turn around future field behavior. People who commit Wanton Waste are just focused on trophy parts or shooting ops, and these hunters should be treated more stiffly than others.

    larry

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    Member BIGAKSTUFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    And they where/are Officers to boot?


    The DA dropped the ball on this one, big time. The investigating Troopers recommended criminal charges, and instead the DA opted for the lesser violations....And fined them a paltry sum. Top that off with the CG likely not pursuing anything more than a stern lecture....

    ....And these guys are charged with patrolling our waters and protecting US???


    "We didn't know the law" was their defense.....Nice precedent, officers.
    No, not officers, but somewhat junior enlisted. A petty officer second class is an E-5, I'm sure the CG will have thier way with them now that the case is over in civilian courts.
    The Second Amendment.......Know it, love it, support it.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bartlett View Post
    Hey guys, I'm a huge advocate for meat care and consider myself sensitive to potential hunter violations concerning salvage and preservation. That said, I would consider the terminology the report uses to clarify the charges filed against these two soldiers.

    The differences between "failure to salvage" and "wanton waste" are pretty significant, although many people use the term wanton waste more often to mean both violations...they're not the same, nor do they carry the same legal weight in retribution or conviction.

    Failure to Salvage Edible Meat is the lessor of the two violations. It means that the hunters attempted to salvage the meat but left enough behind to warrant a legal penalty, which is subjective and handled differently depending on the citing officer. I've seen Failure to Salvage citations handed out to hunters who left 3-5% of edible meat on a moose carcass (20-30 lbs respectively), and some cases involve much more than 5% potential yield from a big game animal.

    Wanton Waste is more egregious by law. Cases where hunters are cited for wanton waste typically involve hunters obviously having no intentions of salvaging meat of the big game animal (such as taking the horns and leaving the animal to waste). Alaska court systems usually hand out stiff penalties for wanton waste violations, whereas failure to salvage edible meat citations may often seem like a slap on the wrist to sensitive observers like many of us.

    Just thought I'd throw that out there for curious hunters. I wouldn't bash these soldiers and suggest that they aren't fit for duty. Oftentimes Failure to Salvage can be corrected through better education, and mild retribution might turn around future field behavior. People who commit Wanton Waste are just focused on trophy parts or shooting ops, and these hunters should be treated more stiffly than others.

    larry
    By all accounts it sounds like the crime actually warranted a charge of "wanton waste". They were however only originally charged with "failure to salvage". That lesser charge was then knocked down to a slap on the wrist because the DA "didn't want to saddle them" with a criminal history. Clearly, they received preferential treatment.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    They just took the antleers.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member Tearbear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    They just took the antleers.
    Yep...they didn't 'waste' the antlers.
    "Grin and Bear It"

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGAKSTUFF View Post
    No, not officers, but somewhat junior enlisted. A petty officer second class is an E-5, I'm sure the CG will have thier way with them now that the case is over in civilian courts.
    Appreciate the clarification, I saw Petty Officer and thought, well, officer.


    I hope the CG puts more teeth into the punishment, but based on the linked articles, it seems unlikely..

    "It’s not clear yet if the court case will affect the two Coast Guard members’ careers. Coast Guard District 17 spokesman Chief Petty Officer Kip Wadlow said the Coast Guard is still conducting an administrative investigation into the incident.

    It’s not likely they will face serious repercussions, such as a court martial or non-judicial punishment, because the Coast Guard military code generally doesn’t seek that for members who already had their case adjudicated in state court.

    “Should their (internal Coast Guard) investigation uncover additional offenses not related to the offenses for which the state imposed punishment, the Coast Guard reserves the right to take action,” Wadlow said in an email."
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Member BIGAKSTUFF's Avatar
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    One can only hope. I know that in the Navy, the 'old man' does not need a court marshal to hammer you. A non-judicial punishment served by the captain of the ship can include 1/2 months pay x 2, reduction in rank to the next pay grade, 45 days restriciton and 45 days extra duty, and even administrative separation.

    I hope that thier captain understands the sensitive situation he's in with his personnel being looked at unfavorably in the publics eyes, and deals a heavy hand to these dumb*****es.
    The Second Amendment.......Know it, love it, support it.

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    No bias here folks, none at all.

    Just so I understand how you all feel. So these guys that clearly messed up, who more likely than not have never had any criminal violations "if they had would not be officers" should have been prosecuted to the full extent of the law and fired from and thrown out of military service for this offense?

    For those that think they will not face UCMJ action, simply are not informed on how the military works. I'm quite sure that this will have a negative impact on their career.

    If you believe in our justice system, one has to have faith that the JUDGE, had more information and was in a better position to pass judgement than the lot of us sitting behind a keyboard ready to form a firing squad.
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