Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Sheep Party Tag

  1. #1
    New member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kodiak
    Posts
    140

    Default Sheep Party Tag

    Would it be worthwhile to put in for a party tag with my brother in law who is a non resident? Or is that basically guaranteeing that neither of us will draw?

  2. #2
    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks Area
    Posts
    7,272

    Default

    I'm sure others will correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand the process. Say there is 40 tags, you and your BIL would get one chance. So if you were drawn last and there was only one tag left, with the other 39 already issued, you would be out of luck since they could not issue you both a tags since that would be 41 tags.

    So instead of you both getting a chance if you applied separately party applications get one chance.

    That is how I understand how it works. Clear as mud?????

    Steve
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"
    Founding Member
    http://www.residenthuntersofalaska.org/

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Yup and thick as pea soup.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Member Milo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,472

    Default

    Tell me what tags and I'll tell you if you should put in

    Based on Stid's explanation, I recommend DS123 for a party hunt.
    Death is like an old whore in a bar--I'll buy her a drink but I won't go upstairs with her.

  5. #5

    Default

    People are going to be angry. However, a percentage of each of the drawing hunts goes to nonresidents. This percentage that you are seeking has a great number less of people putting for this draw than for Alaskan residents. It would be easier for you to put in for the TOK Management area, DS165 and DS160 as a party hunt. As a nonresident he has a way greater chance as do you if you are lumped with him than if you were a regular resident.

    Sincerely,
    Thomas

  6. #6
    Member oakman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    I'm not 100% sure how this works, but are they guaranteed a certain percentage of tags or is it a max? One thing you do have to worry about is if it is a max number of permits goes to a non-resident, if that has already been reached, then you are out of luck as well.

    This is clearly defined for Kodiak Bear in the supplement. For instance, a max of 1 non-resident hunting with kin is allowed for each hunt number. There are other restrictions as well for the non-resident hunting with kin there.

    The way I always look at the party hunts (and I've won a few of them) is will you do the hunt on your own? Do you have a partner that will go with you even if they don't have a tag?

    I'd be perfectly willing to do a 14C sheep hunt on my own, but for something with more difficult logistics, I'll probably want a partner. Do I have a load of friends willing to go on a hunt and not shoot anything???? Not so much...time for a party tag.

    Might be best to check with F&G and see what they say about the various tags. If you do, let us know.

    Good luck unless you're putting in for the same stuff as me....

  7. #7

    Default

    That is a bit of an odd situation when you think about it. If you are mixing a non-resident with a resident on a party application, which portion of the available permits are being used if/when you get drawn? Would they give him a non-resident permit and you one from the resident quota? Would you both take from the non-resident quota? My assumption (without doing any research, so don't quote me on it) would be that it would have to draw from the non-resident quota for both as it wouldn't be "fair" to get picked in the higher odds non-resident pool and take a resident permit. Sorry, that part wasn't really part of your question, just one that came to mind while reading the post.

    And, back to the original question....

    From what kaboku68 said, it may be a bit of a give and take, and depending on how they are allocated, you could come out ahead with the party application. Stid is correct in that if a party application (which gets one ticket in the pot for a drawing) gets pulled when there is only one permit remaining available, they will get passed over for the next individual applicant because there are not two permits available to give out and they will not award half of a party application a permit. It is an all or nothing thing. But, your odds may be better to start with if you are lumped into the non-resident bunch for the drawing to begin with.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    639

    Default

    Another way of looking at it...

    I've gone on hunts before where my goal was not the primary species, but I still had opportunities to take an animal.

    In many sheep areas, there are also bears and in some caribou. I would not pass up an opportunity to go on a hunt with a friend who was chasing sheep, especially if I felt there was an opportunity to harvest a nice bear or even a 'bou.

    If the goal is 2 sheep, the party tag is a must, if the goal is a sheep and opportunities at "other" game or just being a part of a great hunt, 2 individual applications double your chances.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    1,588

    Default

    So...... you're going to apply for a hunt that has a 1% or maybe 2% chance of being drawn to begin with. I wouldn't worry about my (our) application being drawn last, as the odds are already against you being drawn at all.
    Applying for a party tag is pretty much like applying for a single tag - submit the app and keep your fingers crossed.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    So...... you're going to apply for a hunt that has a 1% or maybe 2% chance of being drawn to begin with. I wouldn't worry about my (our) application being drawn last, as the odds are already against you being drawn at all.
    Applying for a party tag is pretty much like applying for a single tag - submit the app and keep your fingers crossed.
    The thing is, with it being so hard to draw a tag in a 1 or 2% chance hunt, why make the odds worse by doing it as a party if you did not need a 2nd permit to justify the hunt from the start. Some of those hunts are so low on the odds because the number of permits available are very low to start with. Yes, if there are 100 or more permits to be given out, you applying as a party and risking being the last of the 100 picked would be pretty slim, but if there were only 5 permits being given out, then you just knocked your odds of drawing down by an additional 20% of that low starting point. It's all part of the game of the permit draw system. No one approach is the best for all hunts or all hunters. Each has their own angles to look at when applying.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Big Lake
    Posts
    1,588

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    The thing is, with it being so hard to draw a tag in a 1 or 2% chance hunt, why make the odds worse by doing it as a party if you did not need a 2nd permit to justify the hunt from the start. Some of those hunts are so low on the odds because the number of permits available are very low to start with. Yes, if there are 100 or more permits to be given out, you applying as a party and risking being the last of the 100 picked would be pretty slim, but if there were only 5 permits being given out, then you just knocked your odds of drawing down by an additional 20% of that low starting point. It's all part of the game of the permit draw system. No one approach is the best for all hunts or all hunters. Each has their own angles to look at when applying.
    And just what is 20% of 1%? Do the math - you really haven't reduced your chance of drawing by an appreciable amount.

  12. #12
    Member patrickL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    1,131

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    And just what is 20% of 1%? Do the math - you really haven't reduced your chance of drawing by an appreciable amount.
    Given the numbers you've stated, you've reduced your chances by one-fifth, from 1% to 0.2%. If you pencil it out you just went from 1 successful draw in every 100 you put in for to 1 in every 500 you put in for. You might think it's small already but you've just made small exceedingly small.

    Another thing to think about, as Stid2677 eluded to, a party tag is given a single entry in the draw. That means, if my dad and I wanted to do a sheep hunt as a party, we'd be given one number in the draw for the party and not one for each of us. If we applied separately we are each given a number in the draw, doubling our chances of drawing at least one tag. At least this was the case in 2012 when we were putting in for goat tags. Given the other drawbacks to applying as a party that are mentioned above, and the fact that my dad and I are just happy to be hunting together, we typically put in individually and if either one of use draws, we go together.

    Short story, when you pencil it out it actually makes quite a bit of difference in your odds of drawing by putting in as a party. The only advantage I see to putting in as a party are in the cases when you are set on hunting with your party and only with your party.

  13. #13
    Member oakman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Eagle River, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    1,172

    Default

    As has already been mentioned, the number of permits available is important here. A clear example is if there is only one permit available. You are definitely going to FAIL on this one...if there are only 2 permits available, you only have 1 chance. However, if there are 300 permits available, then you have pretty good odds.

    Another thing to consider, is what you're getting. Say it's you and your teenage son. 2 sheep is pretty easy for a family to handle (eating). What are you going to do with 2 bison? That's a lot of meat to eat. Better have some plans for giving some away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    So...... you're going to apply for a hunt that has a 1% or maybe 2% chance of being drawn to begin with. I wouldn't worry about my (our) application being drawn last, as the odds are already against you being drawn at all.
    Applying for a party tag is pretty much like applying for a single tag - submit the app and keep your fingers crossed.

  14. #14
    New member
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Kodiak
    Posts
    140

    Default

    Thanks for all the advice folks. Hard to say what we will do. I like the idea of a smaller amount of non residents applying for tags and the fact that there will be some tags given to non residents. But I don't want to miss out on a tag due to the fact that I'll be attached to a non resident. My brother in law is concerned that we will both draw tags in different areas if we don't party tag it. I know the chance of that happening is slim to never.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •