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Thread: Dumb Question: What would happen if you were out on a hunt (unreachable) and an EO...

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    Default Dumb Question: What would happen if you were out on a hunt (unreachable) and an EO...

    Basically what would happen if you were out on a hunt and an EO closed it while you were out on the actual hunt and took that animal after the effective date of the EO?

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Chances are, nothing would happen, so long as you can make a reasonable argument that you didn't know it closed.

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    Member Antleridge's Avatar
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    That's not a dumb question; I suspect many here have heard or had the same one.

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    For the most part, you should be fine as long as the EO came out after you left for the hunt. Might be harder to claim ignorance if you left sometime after the EO was posted. For hunts like the unit 13 Tier I hunt, they tell you to make sure to check the hotline before you go hunting. I think they are fairly reasonable in understanding that not everyone has a means to call in or check online while out on a hunt. Many areas have no signal, so it wouldn't be practical to check every day.

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    When they create EOs they take into account for those that are already out in the bush. If you checked in before you left on the hunt then nothing would happen regardless. They can't expect you to know there was an EO issued while you were already out there hunting.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    So ignorance of the law is an excuse?
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
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    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    So ignorance of the law is an excuse?
    I didn't say that. What I did say is that you are supposed to check that there are no EOs just before you go out into the bush. If there aren't then you are free to go and kill an animal. If when you get back, check in your animal, and can show them that you were in the bush when the EO became effective, then there should be no problem.

    Like I said, when they make an EO they take into consideration those that are already in the bush hunting....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    So ignorance of the law is an excuse?
    I would not call that ignorance of the law. If you were out in the bush and had no way of knowing there was a EO put out how is that Ignorance of the law?
    I am all about doing the right thing and staying with in the guide lines of the law but at some point there has to be common since on both sides.

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    Any hunt that may close shortly (usually a registration hunt that closes when a certain number of animals is taken) by EO, that I have been on, requires you to check in by a certain time or regularly, to check the status of the hunt. I'm not so sure they would be nice about it if you caused them to go over the desired harvest. What if it was a hunt with a quota of 10 animals, say a goat hunt? If 20 guys were "out of touch" and harvested an animal, there could be serious consequences. With cell phones and SAT phones, there is really no reason you couldn't check in.
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I can remember on tier II once F&G thought the limit was close they would fly the area blowing a siren to shut down the hunt.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    With cell phones and SAT phones, there is really no reason you couldn't check in.
    Bull......they can't require you to have a SAT phone, or a cell that more likely than not wouldn't get reception. I have never red in the regs where a hunter has to "call in" while on the hunt. Hell, much of the time the da*n cells don't even work around town much less a few hundred miles out into the bush.

    Once again..........they realize that hunters can't all do that when they create the EOs so take that into consideration.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    We carry a sat phone all the time and it is not an issue for us to check in with F&G. I know that in the past, hunting Tier I in Unit 13, we have kept up on the quota's just to ensure that we do not get caught with an EO that went in to effect. I know that not everyone is willing to have a sat phone, but that is what we do.

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    Page 15 of regs : Permit hunts
    When hunter demand is higher than a game population can sustain, harvest is often restricted by permits. Six kinds of
    permit hunts are used: drawing, registration, Tier I, Tier II, targeted, and community subsistence harvest. These hunts may
    close early by Emergency Order. It is your responsibility to check with the department for hunt closure information prior to
    hunting. Hunt information can be found at http://hunt.alaska.gov.
    I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    Any hunt that may close shortly (usually a registration hunt that closes when a certain number of animals is taken) by EO, that I have been on, requires you to check in by a certain time or regularly, to check the status of the hunt. I'm not so sure they would be nice about it if you caused them to go over the desired harvest. What if it was a hunt with a quota of 10 animals, say a goat hunt? If 20 guys were "out of touch" and harvested an animal, there could be serious consequences. With cell phones and SAT phones, there is really no reason you couldn't check in.
    Actually there is. Cell phones work great when there is a cell tower or coverage. As far as SAT phones...they work great too, if you can afford them.

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    As much as we all judge the skill of ADFG and the decision making skills they have been doing this management thing more than a day. I think they have an idea on how to handle EOs for certain hunts. For hunts like the 40 mile caribou they close it well before the quota is met because they know reports will trickle in a couple days later. On hunts that have less pressure they update and say this hunt will close soon. i dont think u will be crucified (obviously based on the exact situation) for the question at hand. I dont think we need to get into this leo will and this leo wont write you up for the death penalty but they know there is a leeway zone in there for reporting after a EO comes out.

    And twodux i am so greatful for the people like you on here to express your deconstructive .02. without them we would have normal conversations with a whole lot of productive opinions.
    Trying to play enough to make working for the money all worth it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Bull......they can't require you to have a SAT phone
    This year, for the first time, all fishing guides operating within the Togiak Refuge where required, in order to obtain a permit, to carry a SAT in the field (not sure if hunting guides had the same requirement, but I'd not be surprised).
    I found it a bit overbearing (we always carry one anyway) but it is likely the beginning of Big Bro' making the same requirements of (non guided) hunters and fisherman.....

    [/thread drift]
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kmagers View Post
    And twodux i am so greatful for the people like you on here to express your deconstructive .02. without them we would have normal conversations with a whole lot of productive opinions.
    Not deconstructing anything. I would not take someones word on the internet that you wouldn't get a ticket for hunting after an emergency season closure. It's your responsibility to know if the season is still open or not. If they let one guy get away with hunting after an EO closed the season, that would soon be the go to excuse...... "I didn't know the season was closed because I was out of touch."

    But if you want to stick your head in the sand and try it, be my guest. I'd like to be there when you report that you killed an animal two days after the season closed.
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    Here is a recent emergency order to close the Sheridan Goat Hunt. it was posted on the 24th of Oct.

    "Sheridan Goat Hunt Closes
    (Cordova)- Registration permit hunt RG231 for mountain goats in Unit 6C will close at 11:59 p.m. on Saturday, October 25 by Emergency Order of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. Hunt area RG231 which includes that portion of Unit 6C east of Scott Glacier and the main channel of Scott River, north of the Copper River Highway, and west of Sheridan Glacier and the main channel of Glacier River.
    The most recent survey for goats in registration permit area RG231 found 121 goats. The department set the maximum allowable state harvest at 6 goat units. Additional take beyond the harvest objective could harm the long-term stability of the mountain goat population. According to Cordova Area Biologist Charlotte Westing, the harvest is currently at 3 billies and 1 nanny. Hunters are currently in the field, and therefore it is likely that additional goats have been taken and not yet reported. This closure is necessary to prevent unsustainable harvest."

    I don't think they'd look kindly on a bunch of guys coming in with goats taken after the closure. No matter what the excuse is. They tell you when you pick up the permit to keep in contact in case there is a closure.
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    It's your responsibility to know if the season is still open or not before you go hunting
    Fixed it for you.

    As long as you checked for an EO before you left to go hunting, that's about all you can do and there should be no reason to be penalized for harvesting a given animal. There is no law that says you have to actively check in via SAT phone or cell phone or any other means of communication on a given hunt to check on an EO. Many people don't even take SAT phones with them hunting. Not only that, but they don't always work in some situations. There are a lot of variables here and I don't think ADFG is eager to prosecute people who are trying to be ethical about their hunts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    Here is a recent emergency order to close the Sheridan Goat Hunt. it was posted on the 24th of Oct.

    "Sheridan Goat Hunt Closes
    (Cordova)- Registration permit hunt RG231 for mountain goats in Unit 6C will close at 11:59 p.m. on Saturday, October 25 by Emergency Order of the Alaska Department of Fish and Game. Hunt area RG231 which includes that portion of Unit 6C east of Scott Glacier and the main channel of Scott River, north of the Copper River Highway, and west of Sheridan Glacier and the main channel of Glacier River.
    The most recent survey for goats in registration permit area RG231 found 121 goats. The department set the maximum allowable state harvest at 6 goat units. Additional take beyond the harvest objective could harm the long-term stability of the mountain goat population. According to Cordova Area Biologist Charlotte Westing, the harvest is currently at 3 billies and 1 nanny. Hunters are currently in the field, and therefore it is likely that additional goats have been taken and not yet reported. This closure is necessary to prevent unsustainable harvest."

    I don't think they'd look kindly on a bunch of guys coming in with goats taken after the closure. No matter what the excuse is. They tell you when you pick up the permit to keep in contact in case there is a closure.

    Just like 4merguide tried saying, they take into account hunters that are in the field, and are closing the area before the maximum harvest points were reached, by taking those hunters into consideration.

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