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Thread: The fight to keep lead legal .... is it coming?

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    Member JuliW's Avatar
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    Default The fight to keep lead legal .... is it coming?

    A Schandelemeier article in the ADN today

    http://www.adn.com/article/20141021/...-deadly-legacy

    While I don't dispute the fact that is was wise to move from lead to steel shot for waterfowl hunting... I do have to wonder if there will be any sort of 'trickle down' effect regarding the use of lead for any hunting ammo or fishing weight....

    Would it be better for hunters to make the shift themselves - from lead to copper or steel ...before the gov't does it for us?
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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    No steel in a rifled barrel! Ever!
    This has been discussed before on this forum regarding lead producers and the EPA. There are some good non-lead bullets out there, but they will be expensive. A few on here will say,"Conspiracy theory, it's not going to happen!". But history shows- and especially recent history- that what you once thought could never happen, could, does and is happening.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    I've read a lot of the sources he cites in the article... I've also read a lot of scientific rebuttals to that as well.

    I get the waterfowl thing since so much lead is going into the feedbeds and subsequently being eaten over time. The bird of prey eating a ptarmigan with a pellet in it...not so much. Lead poisoning from eating meat with lead fragments in it? I'll take a lot more convincing on that point...and I eat and feed my family game meat as close to exclusively as possible. If a guy wants to shoot copper or steel projectiles- I have no qualms...but saying that everyone should in every situation is painting with a pretty broad brush.

    As far as the recovery of the bald eagle... that's been historically tied to DDT, not lead shot elimination. Seems a bit like taking "1" and "1" and coming up with "11".
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    It's coming...as California goes so does the rest of the country...eventually. Think CARB, those dumb gas containers &c.

    "In October, 2013 Assembly Bill 711 was approved by the Governor and chaptered into law by the Secretary of State. AB 711 added several sections to Fish and Game Code, one of which (3005.5(b)) requires a complete ban on the use of lead ammunition for any hunting purposes anywhere in the State by July 1, 2019..."

    http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/lead-free/





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    And let's not forget the wing-nut organizations that continue to try to ban hunting anyway they can.

    http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/ope...n-public-lands

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    Arizona Game & Fish reports an overwhelming migration to Barnes bullets over the last few years; they recommend against regulation as long as the voluntary changeover is so successful. My rifle is certainly happy with them.

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    So what about all us folks that use smooth bore or rifle muzzle loaders for hunting?

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    AZGF has been giving away vouchers for Barnes loaded ammo for probably 10 years or so to hunters who get drawn for Mule Deer on the Kaibab (12W & 12W) and 12B and maybe The Strip 13's because of the reintroduction of California Condors up near House Rock.
    They kill just as lethal as traditional bullets since Barnes came out with the "X" bullet way back in about 1990 or so. I liked the 120gr so well that I loaded a bunch up in 7mm Rem Mag and still have some left.
    The Long Range Accu Bond and the TTSX seem to work ok for most people but I can't say they outperform a conventional bullet like the Partition or CoreLok. Probably 50% of the fishing weights I see for sale are not lead anymore but I'll ask a friend over in Bristol exactly when it was that they stopped selling lead weights for fishing in England, not sure if it was the entire UK or not.
    If memory serves me correctly it has been about 20 or more years. Agreed on California Legislation and it's historical effect on the rest of the country.

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    Of course the fight is coming, its just taken longer than I ever figured. Can you imagine what a non-lead 5lb. halibut weight is going to look like, and cost...

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    I am sure you are correct limon...Curiously, I wonder how lead free fishing would affect the commercial fishing industry?
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    Default The fight to keep lead legal .... is it coming?

    Quote Originally Posted by JuliW View Post
    I am sure you are correct limon...Curiously, I wonder how lead free fishing would affect the commercial fishing industry?
    Funny you mention that because that was my next thought after postin my previous response!

    I have to imagine some forms would be heavily impacted, gill netters and long liners?

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    As far as the recovery of the bald eagle... that's been historically tied to DDT...
    Sorry, but this is a myth, not science: http://www.thenewatlantis.com/public...-silent-spring

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Yes, and these pseudo scientists don't really care what carnage and turmoil they leave behind with their alarmist false claims

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    Premium Member MarineHawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    Yes, and these pseudo scientists don't really care what carnage and turmoil they leave behind with their alarmist false claims
    Yes, sadly: http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2...ear-on-record/

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    All day long I deal with permissible exposures limits(PELs), lowest detected lethal concentrations (LDLCs), lower explosive limits(LELs), recommended exposure limits (RELs) and PPM and PPB and a whole list ofother scientific term that mean very little if you are the one affected by an exposure.
    One very important point is to understand the issue at hand. Apples to Apples.
    The issue of Lead in hunting and fishing for the most part revolves around water fowl. Either being shot with lead or ingesting lead shot weightsin lakes and streams.
    Personally, I am more concerned about mercury in fish thenlead.
    Lead is naturally occurring in nature as a result of radioactive decay. Some things lead was used for as in gasoline were found to have side effects that required its discontinuance.Other items such as fishing weights are being studied.
    The body can expel lead albeit slowly. Over exposure will cause an increase in lead in the blood and bones. Overtime, this can affect health. Children are more susceptible to lead issues.
    I donít have an opinion either way as to whether it affects fish or water quality but I am sure emotions will dictate the discontinuance of lead.
    But I do wash my hands after handling lead weights and shot.
    All paradise rests in the shadow of swords." ~K. Yates

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Back to your original question: "...is it coming?"; yes. It is coming UNLESS people wake up and realize that bureaucracy begets bureaucracy and that with increased government comes loss of personal freedom, quite often for arbitrary reasons. As long as people continue to support big government, we can look for more and more regulation, and less and less freedom.

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    Shutting down the last lead smelter operation in the US last year is a prelude to whatís coming.

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    Member JuliW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by outaMT View Post
    Shutting down the last lead smelter operation in the US last year is a prelude to whatís coming.
    ha - letting other countries do our 'dirty work' for us...interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    Back to your original question: "...is it coming?"; yes. It is coming UNLESS people wake up and realize that bureaucracy begets bureaucracy and that with increased government comes loss of personal freedom, quite often for arbitrary reasons. As long as people continue to support big government, we can look for more and more regulation, and less and less freedom.

    sayak - I agree... I read a quote recently by someone whose name I have forgotten... but it was to the effect that, while the gov't may claim to be protecting us (or the earth) - by imposing laws and regulations to protect us (or the environment) - what they are really doing is taking more control of their citizens.
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    Alaska will have little choice when banning lead becomes a national law.

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    He who has the most money wins...... I wonder if the switch from paper to plastic hulls caused problems when putting a non biodegradable plastic on the ground.
    "Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science"

    Edwin Hubble

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