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Thread: Another one....

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    Default Another one....

    Been a very bad year for bear attacks this year. An old friend of mine was killed by a grizzly while sheep hunting in Alberta, another lady was killed in that province while working for an oil company.....then a hunter from Kentucky was killed in the NWT while skinning a moose. A man was badly mauled in BC last week, and yesterday a lady was killed by a grizzly near my home. The bear came through a window in their cabin.....husband did kill the bear but it was to late. Our bear population is at an all time high yet there are still those who want to shut it down....

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    Sorry to hear that. Three years ago, we had two bear attacks within about a two week period in Arizona. They occurred within 10 miles of each other and within the same game management unit. I actually possessed one of 50 spring bear tags for that management unit. Instead of inviting all hunters with tags into that specific area within the management unit to help reduce bear numbers and perhaps tag the culprits, our national forest was closed for MILES around the area, which reduced the huntable bear portion of the unit by about 80%. Local wildlife decisions are often made with indifference to the opinions of the locals. It was sad. I hope your bear hunts continue.

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    So sorry for the loss of your friend.

    You can pretty much bet that if one of the "higher ups" lost a loved one to a bear that things would change pretty fast.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    Our bear population is at an all time high yet there are still those who want to shut it down....
    From the YG Southern Lakes Grizzly Bear study site:
    "Current estimates of grizzly bear numbers are based on local knowledge, outfitter experience, harvest history and expert opinion. Environment Yukon needs more detailed information in order to sustainably manage this harvested population"
    As this study is onoging, can you link the information you base your assertion on, re bear populations?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
    From the YG Southern Lakes Grizzly Bear study site:
    "Current estimates of grizzly bear numbers are based on local knowledge, outfitter experience, harvest history and expert opinion. Environment Yukon needs more detailed information in order to sustainably manage this harvested population"
    As this study is onoging, can you link the information you base your assertion on, re bear populations?
    For years F&G and the Refuge people ignored local knowledge around here, grossly under estimating the brown bear numbers. The bears were everywhere, including getting into garbage in town. It's a little better lately. 1st year in quite a while that we haven't had someone rolled by a brownie near their home.
    Hunt Ethically. Respect the Environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SmokeRoss View Post
    For years F&G and the Refuge people ignored local knowledge around here, grossly under estimating the brown bear numbers. The bears were everywhere, including getting into garbage in town. It's a little better lately. 1st year in quite a while that we haven't had someone rolled by a brownie near their home.
    A few years ago, a friend was woring on an Eastern Slope, Alberta Rockies Grizzly survey. Part of the survey included interviewing forestry and seismic workers, the idea being that because these guys were "boots on the gorund", they should get some good anecdotal data. The overwhelming opinion of these workers was that there were griz everywhere. As it turned out, once some actual hard data from collared animals and aerial surveys got analyzed, the bears that were "everywhere" were actually a sow and two cubs that the workers kept seeing "everywhere".
    The point is, its very easy to see bears around where you live (and recreate), and assume that this represents the population of a region as a whole. Many factors can drive bear populations into conflict with human residential areas, but thats completely different when assesing the population as a whole, and coming up with effective management plans.
    The orignal poster stated that our bear population is at an all time high, and was wondering how he came up with this, as there is zero historical data to base it on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
    A few years ago, a friend was woring on an Eastern Slope, Alberta Rockies Grizzly survey. Part of the survey included interviewing forestry and seismic workers, the idea being that because these guys were "boots on the gorund", they should get some good anecdotal data. The overwhelming opinion of these workers was that there were griz everywhere. As it turned out, once some actual hard data from collared animals and aerial surveys got analyzed, the bears that were "everywhere" were actually a sow and two cubs that the workers kept seeing "everywhere".
    The point is, its very easy to see bears around where you live (and recreate), and assume that this represents the population of a region as a whole. Many factors can drive bear populations into conflict with human residential areas, but thats completely different when assesing the population as a whole, and coming up with effective management plans.
    The orignal poster stated that our bear population is at an all time high, and was wondering how he came up with this, as there is zero historical data to base it on.
    I have worked with bio's a few times....it might surprise you if you knew how they come up with some of their numbers, then again it might not. I said our bear population is high because it is.....On an average year I spend 5 to 6 months in the bush. I have lived in the southern lakes area for almost 30-years. When you repeatedly see 8 grizzlies in 21 km, in an area where they are studying grizzly, then pass that info on to the head bio, and she says its impossible because she has been driving that road daily for weeks, you might laugh when you find out she doesnt get out till noon, and expects the bears to be there.....true story.....then you find out this same bio is very anti hunting to begin with.....to understand where I am coming from look at some old Yukon hunting regs.....about 6 years or so.....you will find that in the southern lakes we could take one grizzly every year.....when I asked some COs about it they said the reason was they knew the grizzly population was very high in this area and that was one of the major reasons the Carcross caribou herd is still in decline.....hunters didnt take advantage of that hunt and we got a new bear bio, so we lost it........thats southern Yukon......most of my time is spent in the southeast.....in 30-years there I have seen a biologist 1 time, they have no clue what is happening out there, but I can tell you I have seen more grizzly and sign in the last few years than ever before......as for Alberta your friend is wrong.....last year at the Abbostford sports show I talked to an Alberta CO who is one of 13 COs on Alberta's bear response team.....he told me that he, himself responded to 65 calls that involved different grizzlies in one year.....that is one CO out of 13!! When I asked him what the real grizzly population in Alberta is (official number is 791) he said it was very high......more than triple the official number in his estimate.......I know trappers in Alberta who agree....

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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    I have worked with bio's a few times....it might surprise you if you knew how they come up with some of their numbers, then again it might not. I said our bear population is high because it is.....On an average year I spend 5 to 6 months in the bush. I have lived in the southern lakes area for almost 30-years. When you repeatedly see 8 grizzlies in 21 km, in an area where they are studying grizzly, then pass that info on to the head bio, and she says its impossible because she has been driving that road daily for weeks, you might laugh when you find out she doesnt get out till noon, and expects the bears to be there.....true story.....then you find out this same bio is very anti hunting to begin with.....to understand where I am coming from look at some old Yukon hunting regs.....about 6 years or so.....you will find that in the southern lakes we could take one grizzly every year.....when I asked some COs about it they said the reason was they knew the grizzly population was very high in this area and that was one of the major reasons the Carcross caribou herd is still in decline.....hunters didnt take advantage of that hunt and we got a new bear bio, so we lost it........thats southern Yukon......most of my time is spent in the southeast.....in 30-years there I have seen a biologist 1 time, they have no clue what is happening out there, but I can tell you I have seen more grizzly and sign in the last few years than ever before......as for Alberta your friend is wrong.....last year at the Abbostford sports show I talked to an Alberta CO who is one of 13 COs on Alberta's bear response team.....he told me that he, himself responded to 65 calls that involved different grizzlies in one year.....that is one CO out of 13!! When I asked him what the real grizzly population in Alberta is (official number is 791) he said it was very high......more than triple the official number in his estimate.......I know trappers in Alberta who agree....
    Kinda sounds like what happened here on the Kenai. They hadn't done an aerial count for years and was basing everything on a computer program. When they finally got tired of hearing from the locals and decided to put boots on the ground to make a study, things changed in a da*n big hurry. Unfortunately it wasn't fast enough and our moose population suffered greatly in the mean time........
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Kinda sounds like what happened here on the Kenai. They hadn't done an aerial count for years and was basing everything on a computer program. When they finally got tired of hearing from the locals and decided to put boots on the ground to make a study, things changed in a da*n big hurry. Unfortunately it wasn't fast enough and our moose population suffered greatly in the mean time........
    probably off topic and better suited to a separate thread, but while I do agree the brown bear pop. is currently larger on the Kenai now than it has been for quite some time, I don't believe that is the reason for the low moose numbers. If you attended the f&g advisory meetings in the 70's you probably remember the "Sprakersez" comments about black bears being the primary predator on moose calves. Probably true. The guy knows his ****. But one can point the blame at predation, road kills, hunting, etc. the fact remains that you need good feed and habitat. I'm hoping this years fires produce moose habitat that increases calf survival. then we will all be happy. us hunters, the bears ,and the wolves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Kinda sounds like what happened here on the Kenai. They hadn't done an aerial count for years and was basing everything on a computer program. When they finally got tired of hearing from the locals and decided to put boots on the ground to make a study, things changed in a da*n big hurry. Unfortunately it wasn't fast enough and our moose population suffered greatly in the mean time........
    Yeah, they changed their tune real fast after the DNA study. When you can sit at your cabin in Gray Cliff and identify 7 different brown bears in one day, you know something is wrong.
    Used to see lots of black bears out there. They are rare now. The brownies killed them all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    and yesterday a lady was killed by a grizzly near my home. The bear came through a window in their cabin.....husband did kill the bear but it was to late. ....
    Link to the report

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukoner View Post
    From the YG Southern Lakes Grizzly Bear study site:
    "Current estimates of grizzly bear numbers are based on local knowledge, outfitter experience, harvest history and expert opinion. Environment Yukon needs more detailed information in order to sustainably manage this harvested population"
    As this study is onoging, can you link the information you base your assertion on, re bear populations?
    Not picking on you, but want to point out that just because Environment Yukon is doing a study, that doesn't mean they are using good data or viable research methods...wouldn't be the first time an Agency didn't have a handle on actual animal numbers, or didn't want to publish the actual numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mdhunter View Post
    Not picking on you, but want to point out that just because Environment Yukon is doing a study, that doesn't mean they are using good data or viable research methods...wouldn't be the first time an Agency didn't have a handle on actual animal numbers, or didn't want to publish the actual numbers.
    You aren't picking on me at all. A valid question. One can only hope, but it doesn't mean they are not using proper mthods.
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon254 View Post
    I have worked with bio's a few times....it might surprise you if you knew how they come up with some of their numbers, then again it might not. I said our bear population is high because it is.....On an average year I spend 5 to 6 months in the bush. I have lived in the southern lakes area for almost 30-years. When you repeatedly see 8 grizzlies in 21 km, in an area where they are studying grizzly, then pass that info on to the head bio, and she says its impossible because she has been driving that road daily for weeks, you might laugh when you find out she doesnt get out till noon, and expects the bears to be there.....true story.....then you find out this same bio is very anti hunting to begin with.....to understand where I am coming from look at some old Yukon hunting regs.....about 6 years or so.....you will find that in the southern lakes we could take one grizzly every year.....when I asked some COs about it they said the reason was they knew the grizzly population was very high in this area and that was one of the major reasons the Carcross caribou herd is still in decline.....hunters didnt take advantage of that hunt and we got a new bear bio, so we lost it........thats southern Yukon......most of my time is spent in the southeast.....in 30-years there I have seen a biologist 1 time, they have no clue what is happening out there, but I can tell you I have seen more grizzly and sign in the last few years than ever before......as for Alberta your friend is wrong.....last year at the Abbostford sports show I talked to an Alberta CO who is one of 13 COs on Alberta's bear response team.....he told me that he, himself responded to 65 calls that involved different grizzlies in one year.....that is one CO out of 13!! When I asked him what the real grizzly population in Alberta is (official number is 791) he said it was very high......more than triple the official number in his estimate.......I know trappers in Alberta who agree....
    Your point re. repeatedly seeing 8 griz in the same area sort of illustrates what I'm getting at. That doesn't neccesarily mean the popultaion is high, it just means you've seen 8 griz. I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but we just don't have any solid data besides anecdotal. It will be interesting to see what they come up with from all the data from the DNA sampling areas.
    I've lived in the southern Lakes are for 50 years now, and while I don't live in the bush, I am out every weekend. I've spent a ton of time in the area of the upper Wheaton/Primrose lake/Rose lake area, and I can honestly say the griz are not as prevelant as they once were, but thats just my observation. Out in Tagish there, I have heard from a few friends out that way that folks have seen quite a few this year and last.
    Regardless, really sad incident with Claudia. Really nice folks and I really feel for Mathias, that was their dream and it will be hard for him to go back.
    On a different subject, who was selling their trap line for $100K down in your neck of the woods?
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    http://www.airdrieecho.com/2014/10/2...rs-on-the-rise

    No idea who had a trapline for $100K, seems like a high price.....although I know of one in Alberta for $200K and many in BC go for $120K and up...

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