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Thread: Alaska_Hunting_&_ATV's --[The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly]--

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    Member The German's Avatar
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    Default Alaska_Hunting_&_ATV's --[The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly]--

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    I read that article and found it interesting. I hunt that area nearly exclusively for the last several years and have been fortunate to take quite a few animals...without using an ATV.

    Like everywhere else...solitude and success is easiest achieved via boot leather.
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    I bought my first ATV this year, a 2014 Sportsman 570, and plan on buying a Ranger before next year and a used sled before the year is out.

    All of that money spent, and I have this to say: The amount of damage that those do to the backwoods trails is atrocious. I can't believe some of the things that I have seen since I bought mine, especially since I have never been as far off the road as I was this year. It is terrible how much trash I saw, burned out vehicles around the valley and all of it just uncomfortable enough to not be in walking distance.

    My personal opinion is there should be a timing restriction, such as no shooting until the machine is off for 30 minutes. I am actually ok with the access that the machines bring, but watching people "chasing" animals on machine is against all notions that I have ever had of the concept of fair chase. I think that this alone would alleviate some of the rough riding on the trails and hopefully even eliminate some of the "hunters" like you see on the Denali Hwy. I am of the personal opinion that this restriction should be the same for aircraft, because I don't agree with the 2am the next day rule. I don't like the idea of flying my plane to 100 miles from anywhere and having to leave it for the night to frost up the wings and cold soak the battery, so I exclude myself from aircraft hunting on those restrictions. I'd rather see even a multiple hour restriction that the overnight restriction.

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    This could be a slippery slope that we really do not want to go down. If there is a movement to limit the use of ATV's of every sort, then who or what method will be next to limit? There are already limits on the books that limit off road vehicles to 1500lbs in several places. While I agree in that there are some that sorely abuse the back country with ATV's, ATV's also make areas assessable for people that would not otherwise be able to get out. We need to start policing what goes on in the back country and help educate those that seem to think that they can do as they please.

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    Thanks for the reference. Interesting article but right where I was thinking. As as walk in hunter
    I still see a lot of ATv use. I would love a 400 yard quarter mile restriction from your atv. I think it's a way to fight the herding that goes on and be in the interest of sportsmanship. In fact my idea would be 400 yards from any motorized vehicle.
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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sollybug View Post
    Thanks for the reference. Interesting article but right where I was thinking. As as walk in hunter
    I still see a lot of ATv use. I would love a 400 yard quarter mile restriction from your atv. I think it's a way to fight the herding that goes on and be in the interest of sportsmanship. In fact my idea would be 400 yards from any motorized vehicle.
    Your idea of sportsmanship and ideas of other may be different but do you want the goverment to make the distintion for both of us? Regulation is not the answer, education is.
    This is another "few bad apples ruining it for others" debate. I can go 50 miles in on my rig, clean my camp and leave it better than I found it. Put an actual stalk on my caribou or moose or even just sit on my rig and wait for them to come to me, and harvest my tag. Nothing wrong with that. Very ethical. But some *ss hat tears up a trail chasing a caribou and you want to change the rules for everyone. Go after the bad apples and pluck them and leave us good hunters alone.
    Many of us use a ATV to get away from the masses. Very long and rugged trips to the far reaches. Taking that away from us would be devastating on us and the animals that are closer to a road system.

    The 30 minute rule that was mentioned would never fly. The rules already state that the motor must be off and no forward movement from the motor. Makes it simple. No one carries a stop watch that I know of and I don't even carry a watch.

    The article was written from one area. A Tier I hunt area that has a lot of pressure. What did you expect to see when you got there? Some say you can see more animals on foot. Great. That can be your edge. Its your choice, but don't try a regulate others choice.
    Ignorance is not Bliss, it's insanity

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Bearcat View Post
    This could be a slippery slope that we really do not want to go down. If there is a movement to limit the use of ATV's of every sort, then who or what method will be next to limit? There are already limits on the books that limit off road vehicles to 1500lbs in several places. While I agree in that there are some that sorely abuse the back country with ATV's, ATV's also make areas assessable for people that would not otherwise be able to get out. We need to start policing what goes on in the back country and help educate those that seem to think that they can do as they please.

    At one time waterfowl were hunted with punt guns, you don't see punt guns anymore. At one time there was market hunting, you don't see that anymore. At one time Alaska had less hunters, you don't see that anymore. Point is, things change.

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    As Alaska grows, so will the hunting population. I hate to see more and more laws and regulations. If I don't want to see or be part of certain things, I find something else to do. Yes, it stinks, but I would rather just choose to not participate in something then to have the government have to get involved. The problem isn't having enough regulations, the problem is too many people.
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

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    The government already has enough laws and regulations no more of that needed. Plus the whole 400 yard rule would never fly, at least half the atv hunters I saw out near Willow this fall couldn't walk their tubby butts 400 yards much less walk that far shoot a moose and then pack meat any distance.

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    I wish atv's were treated like airplanes. Can't use it and hunt the same day. I have one, I ride in, camp, hunt on foot. I start my bike to retrieve an animal or go home.

  11. #11

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    This issue is a great example of why it's so important to focus on the what the true problem really is. That is, I believe, the scaring to the landscape done by motor vehicles. Trash is a different problem and not exclusive to ATV use. I hunt on foot or by non motorized float, but I agree that accessibility is very important to maintain to largest area possible for the greatest benefit without over harvesting.

    My armchair suggestion: Improve common ATV trails to handle more traffic and pay for it with a tax on a per cubic centimeter engine size basis. Lighter vehicles and greater driving skill should be encouraged over the latest biggest motor monster.

    Second suggestion: Limit type of vegetation that may be driven on, except for certain designated trails.

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKMtnRunner View Post
    My armchair suggestion: Improve common ATV trails to handle more traffic and pay for it with a tax on a per cubic centimeter engine size basis. Lighter vehicles and greater driving skill should be encouraged over the latest biggest motor monster.

    Second suggestion: Limit type of vegetation that may be driven on, except for certain designated trails.
    I am not a professional vegetation expert and you want me to decipher what can be driven on and what can't? Um, no.
    Your actually suggesting an additional tax? Are you from California? We don't need tax's, we need education and common sense. Why pick on the bigger motors? In the woods, 50 miles in to be exact, I see more atv ruts then UTV ruts on the side of the hills. Don't divide the users. Lets all play nice together and lets avoid more tax's that won't even change the area most of us hunt.

    Quote Originally Posted by wbooth View Post
    I wish atv's were treated like airplanes. Can't use it and hunt the same day. I have one, I ride in, camp, hunt on foot. I start my bike to retrieve an animal or go home.
    This is a crazy idea. Why limit me because I am on an ATV? Are you trying to force upon ATV user's your idea of ethical hunting by regulation? Does it matter if I shoot an animal 10 minutes after I park or 24 hours? No. The wheeler gave me no addition advantage than one on foot. And that doesn't change what the original article was getting at. An airplane is restricted due to it's unfair advantage of being able to see every animal darn near in an area. Very different then an ATV.
    Ignorance is not Bliss, it's insanity

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    Crazy or not that is my idea. I never mentioned ethics. They can't be measured one person to the next. The constant driving in circles and calling that hunting does bother me so I threw out my idea. To think Alaska and it's animals can continue to handle unregulated atv pressure is what is crazy.

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIQhlYRIDgg

    As much fun as this is, they are tearing up the trails up here because there is no foundation for them.

  15. #15

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    Alaskabliss, if you have any suggestions, we'll hear them out. I suggested the tax per engine size not because I like taxes but because it might reflect the true cost of damage to a buyer when picking their rig. I'm not that familiar with ATV vs UTV so engine size maybe isn't the best method, maybe PSI or tread type? Whatever is creating the greatest damage.

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    People are terrible at regulating themselves when it comes to harvesting or utilizing natural resources (as history shows over and over again). This is because if John Doe down the road sees Billy Bob and Dick Henry 'participating in 'x' activity', (such as driving their ATV's all over kingdom come) John Doe figures he ought to be able to as well...John Doe goes to the ATV store and buys the biggest, baddest machine he can and shows up Billy Bob and Dick Henry by going further and covering more ground than they are able to. Replace 'ATV' with any other activity and the result will be the same...hunting, fishing, trapping, mining, logging, etc etc etc.... (of which I am supportive of all, btw)

    Now mulitply those 3 by 500. or 1000. Or 10000. Everyone wants a shot at the same resource. Opportunity to 'go where no man has gone before' or at least go where other people are going....

    What percentage of people REALLY are able to regulate themselves for the better of the environment? I don't think many. The desire to 'have/do' what the guy or gal next door has/does is too great a force.

    And that is when regulations are put in place - by the people or the people's representatives - to keep things in order and protect the environment and resources.

    I think there will eventually be regulations - question is what will they be and will they improve or repair the overall experience, habitat/resource, and opportunity?
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    ATV's are great. In increased numbers they let you distinguish immediately where not to go hunting. Eventually the game will figure it out and move out of the area and change its migration pattern or get depleted beyond hunt-able numbers. F&G will eventually close the hunt or switch to draw only, hunters will blame wolves, government, Internet, liberals, etc... and our slavery to the technology only grows deeper roots. What's the problem? Bunch of people without the skills or physical fortitude, going places they couldn't otherwise, and killing animals they "chase" fairly. What could go wrong? Seems totally sustainable to me? I say lets just use the PFD fund to give everyone an ATV once they get a hunting license. It'll be like raising the minimum wage. If everyone has the advantage that comes with chasing game on an ATV the hunting will only get better. Right? Oh.......

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    What regulation is the author proposing?

    Links to each article is attached.

    http://www.adn.com/article/20140826/...denali-highway

    http://www.adn.com/article/20140930/...hunting-season

    Note: ATV use in the TLAD is currently regulated.

  19. #19

    Default Starter Suggestion :

    Require statewide Registration !

    Both sides of the debate blame the next guy - "Bad Apples".
    From my point of view, being able to identify abusers by easy to read numbers on the machines is a 'no brainer'. Otherwise we have no effective way of quantifying the problems, nor effective means of identifying for enforcement purposes.
    "Punish the monkey - let the organ grinder go" - Mark Knopfler

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    I don't like them and won't use them, but I have to admit they do me a big favor. Guys get their noses pointed at the horizon and drive right by a whole lot of good hunting, anxious to cross the next horizon. Good riddance to them. They're just pushing animals into areas they can't drive to, which works entirely in favor of my two feet.

    If I was going to regulate one single thing on them, it would be better mufflers. Gosh darned those things puttering and roaring around the country sure assault the peace and quiet I crave. But then again, they wouldn't be nearly so good at herding the game to me, so I'm kinda divided on that. Maybe pass a regulation requiring all of them to be even noisier?

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