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Thread: Do Alaskans agree with...

  1. #1

    Default Do Alaskans agree with...

    Alaska Department of Fish & Game? http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...nting.firearms

    On their firearms and ammunition page they suggest hunting AK with a 270, 308, 7mm-08... and that "magnums are not needed". They make the case to visiting hunters that for brown bear a 30-06 is just fine and also say AK guides prefer their clients to tote a 270 or 06! They make the case that AK guides complain clients can't shoot the big magnums. Well if that's true, then they might not shoot an 06 well either, because some smaller rifles kick just as hard!

    From all my reading I recall Alaskans recommend at least a 30-06 or 30 caliber as the minimum for AK game. Many like author Chris Batin say an 06 is OK, but a 338 is good for just about everything.

    The AK site further lists a brown bear up to 1,500lbs. My impression of their 06 recommendation to visiting hunters (many who they imply can't shoot a magnum) is somewhat reckless? What, are these hunters thought of as AK ship and bus tourists wearing flower shirts with a gold pan in one hand and a license to hunt in the other? I know it's been done and can be, but have read the Bear Tales and other hunting stories and the 06 seems marginal at best? Especially taking into account all situations? Heck, then why not an 06 in Africa for Cape Buffalo too? (would one tow a 9,000lb trailer with a small PU because it can do it?)

    Or are they right and all that's really needed for AK is an 06 for everything? Because if that is the case it sure would make things a lot easier. Grab your 06, select the right bullet and then go hunt anything in AK with confidence.

    Funny, their site information was updated along the line and I can remember when they highly recommended a stainless control round feed 300 Winchester Mag. Now it's 30-06 or even the 7-08.

    Unless the 06 is the end-all caliber for AK, I would much rather read a recommendation of learn to shoot enough gun- or stay home... so you don't wound our precious game!

    Am I wrong here... because if I had to pick one rifle for AK it would be my 338 WM. Perhaps I should take another look at the 06 though? Have I been brainwashed for years by others and gun scribes? Because... I know the 06 is very popular in AK. When I went to Africa all the guides carried an 06 and many had never seen a 375 H&H cartridge! (that was surprising) On my Canadian moose hunts in grizzly country, my guides carried 06s. Several emails from a caliber expert who actually tests calibers/bullets on live animals at all sorts of ranges (you can search ballistics study/research online) implied the 06 would be his one gun.

    Have my experiences been skewed, because my impression was things shot with my 338 went down much quicker than with an 06? I'm also reading on other forums that the 06 is even better within 200 yards than a 300 mag... because the slower bullets perform better and ruin less meat. I guess my favorite 300 Win is just for long range now? I'm just about ready to have an 06 bored to 35 Whelen and am now starting to wonder why- if the 06 is recommended for browns? With an 06 I might never have to reload and the ammo is more available at lower prices.

    I think I would feel insecure packing an 06 around big bears- am I wrong? It's fun to dream about making an 06 a go to gun.

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    Member theultrarider's Avatar
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    It depends if you want to kill an animal or stop one. An 06 and smaller is plenty capable of killing anything in Alaska. But should you have a bear charge or a moose come at you and NEED to drop it where it stands, thats when the big magnums come into play and why most guides will carry a 375. The guide is not hunting with his .375. He is there with it to stop something. Most feel safer to have something that can. Im in the middle. I shoot a 300 win mag. You will get many different answers to your question but thats my opinion!

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    My .06 has been plenty of gun for moose, black bears, grizzly and many caribou. I most definitely don't feel under gunned while carrying an .06.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabochris View Post
    Alaska Department of Fish & Game? http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm...nting.firearms

    On their firearms and ammunition page they suggest hunting AK with a 270, 308, 7mm-08... and that "magnums are not needed". They make the case to visiting hunters that for brown bear a 30-06 is just fine and also say AK guides prefer their clients to tote a 270 or 06! They make the case that AK guides complain clients can't shoot the big magnums. Well if that's true, then they might not shoot an 06 well either, because some smaller rifles kick just as hard!

    From all my reading I recall Alaskans recommend at least a 30-06 or 30 caliber as the minimum for AK game. Many like author Chris Batin say an 06 is OK, but a 338 is good for just about everything.

    The AK site further lists a brown bear up to 1,500lbs. My impression of their 06 recommendation to visiting hunters (many who they imply can't shoot a magnum) is somewhat reckless? What, are these hunters thought of as AK ship and bus tourists wearing flower shirts with a gold pan in one hand and a license to hunt in the other? I know it's been done and can be, but have read the Bear Tales and other hunting stories and the 06 seems marginal at best? Especially taking into account all situations? Heck, then why not an 06 in Africa for Cape Buffalo too? (would one tow a 9,000lb trailer with a small PU because it can do it?)

    Or are they right and all that's really needed for AK is an 06 for everything? Because if that is the case it sure would make things a lot easier. Grab your 06, select the right bullet and then go hunt anything in AK with confidence.

    Funny, their site information was updated along the line and I can remember when they highly recommended a stainless control round feed 300 Winchester Mag. Now it's 30-06 or even the 7-08.

    Unless the 06 is the end-all caliber for AK, I would much rather read a recommendation of learn to shoot enough gun- or stay home... so you don't wound our precious game!

    Am I wrong here... because if I had to pick one rifle for AK it would be my 338 WM. Perhaps I should take another look at the 06 though? Have I been brainwashed for years by others and gun scribes? Because... I know the 06 is very popular in AK. When I went to Africa all the guides carried an 06 and many had never seen a 375 H&H cartridge! (that was surprising) On my Canadian moose hunts in grizzly country, my guides carried 06s. Several emails from a caliber expert who actually tests calibers/bullets on live animals at all sorts of ranges (you can search ballistics study/research online) implied the 06 would be his one gun.

    Have my experiences been skewed, because my impression was things shot with my 338 went down much quicker than with an 06? I'm also reading on other forums that the 06 is even better within 200 yards than a 300 mag... because the slower bullets perform better and ruin less meat. I guess my favorite 300 Win is just for long range now? I'm just about ready to have an 06 bored to 35 Whelen and am now starting to wonder why- if the 06 is recommended for browns? With an 06 I might never have to reload and the ammo is more available at lower prices.

    I think I would feel insecure packing an 06 around big bears- am I wrong? It's fun to dream about making an 06 a go to gun.
    After I moved up here I had to decide what large caliber rifle to own. I can't afford to own 5 large caliber rifles (though not against anyone that does). I factored in cost of ammo. A box of cheap 270 costs $60 where I live. The 30-06 has sold out.

    I decided to buy a 30-06. I personally think that I can get my hands on rounds for my rifle in the bush with no problems. If I was to have a 375, I may be out of luck (I've met only one person in my area that hunts with a 375 and he is 55 miles up river).

    The bears I would encounter are not nearly as big as a coastal bear, but not small nonetheless. After shooting a moose this year with my factory round loaded 06, I have no desire to go larger. It isn't that I can't handle the larger caliber, it is simply that I am confident in my shooting abilities that an 06 will do the job. I also carry a 12 gauge loaded with slugs for bears as my main bear gun. If I can't stop a bear with what I have on hand...I guess it will be the end for me

    I say shoot what you like. Buy what you can afford. Who cares what caliber you hunt with as long as you can do the job.

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    All that is old is NEW..

    30-06 180 Grain Accubond.

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    I think this statement, from the article, sums up any implied ADF&G misguidance that you think might be occurring, "Only consider using a .300, .338 or larger magnum if you can shoot it as well as you can the .30-06."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabochris View Post
    Unless the 06 is the end-all caliber for AK...
    It is. And not just for Alaska, for North America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabochris View Post
    Have I been brainwashed for years by others and gun scribes?
    Yup.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cabochris View Post
    With an 06 I might never have to reload and the ammo is more available at lower prices.
    We have a winner. No more calls please.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cabochris View Post
    I think I would feel insecure packing an 06
    It's in all in your head. I swear I'll never ever understand this love for these field artillery pieces, but perhaps that is in my head as well.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    I think a lot of guys have 'magnumitis,' and think they have to carry a 338 or 375.

    I think its more important for non-res to bring a gun they're comfortable and can shoot than to pony up for a 'new' magnum just to come hunt in AK, whether its for moose, 'bou or bear. You truly only need an '06 up here for most big game--as long as you can shoot it. My go to gun in a Tika 30-06.

    Tim

  9. #9

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    Yes, I agree with ADFG. Accuracy trumps power in my opinion, and at some point power prevents accuracy. That point is different for every person. But I would rather be in the field with somebody that can shoot their gun accurately, even if it is a .243, than somebody that has a huge magnum that they can't handle. Obviously the .243 is a pretty darn light load, but accuracy really is that important in my opinion.
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  10. #10

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    Wow, I'm surprised to hear that so many are comfortable hunting big bears with an 06. So when you shoot a moose and that bear dinner bell rings, you're all at ease dressing your game with your 06 nearby? If that's so, then perhaps an 06 is all one needs in North America for big game after all. Surprising to hear because one reads so much to the contrary.

    Plus I rarely read an article where the author choses an 06 for anything? Let alone big bears! Yet you fellows make the 06 your go to AK gun! I may have to rethink this and perhaps sell all my big guns- why shoot those if an 06 is all you really need? Wow, this is sort of an enlightenment... almost an awakening! Even in the lower 48 the 06 is on the bottom rung for elk. The 7mm/300 Win is much preferred and the 338 is described as The King of Elk Calibers. So I guess this is a bunch of hype, as again I just read another private blog, where the hunter shot a cow elk at 500 yards with his 06 and range reticle. The lowly 06 killed the elk just fine.

    Come to think of it on a BC moose hunt where I used a 375 because we were told there were 2 nasty grizzlies round camp (fresh tracks in the snow every night near our tents with short electric fence!)... my group shot 7mm, 30-06, 300 Win, 8mag, 338 Win, 375... and everyone got their moose. Only the 7mm guy shot a small one to Swiss cheese because he couldn't shoot! So I most likely would have taken my bull too, with an 06, plus have a great bear defense round?

    It would be so much easier to hunt the world with just an 06. Why I could sell everything, pay for some hunts and perhaps have enough left over for a Blaser! No that wouldn't be good, because then I would start looking at other barrels!

    I once read an article about an Alaskan grizzly hunt. I no longer recall the exact details but the shooter and his buddy were hunched behind a small rise on some tundra. The shooter wounded the bear a ways off and the bear started running towards them with no place to go- sort of like an angry yellow jacket. The hunter put some 5 rounds of 300 win into this bear and his buddy also unloaded whatever gun he had. There were pictures of the bear lying dead 10 feet from them- both out of ammo and at the time I concluded the 300 Win is bearly enough for an upset bear. (funny... bearly) I suppose the article could have been a lie?

    Have any of you defended yourself from an angry bear using your 30-06. Please share. And do you agree the 06 is actually better than a 300Win within 200 yards because the bullets perform better with less meat destruction?

  11. #11

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    theultrarider...Yes that makes sense, only I'm the sort who would never only rely on my guide (when there was one). I figure if he/she has a 375, then I should too! Once when I was in Africa with my 375 and we stumbled upon an angry recently transplanted White Rhino (it cost only $18,000 to shoot one) my guide yelled "Run... Jump out of the way last second... Don't shoot or you'll have to pay... even if you only wound it!" I ran pretty good and even outran the guide and tracker! Nearly had to do the same with a pissed ostrich later. But to tell the truth my 375 felt like a pea-shooter and a 416 would have be better! Because I would have shot if needed. Good thing rhinos don't see too good!

    If guides carry 375s then there's good reason to!

  12. #12

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    Frostbitten...Thanks, nice to hear this from an experienced hunter!

  13. #13

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    [QUOTE=stid2677;1427576]All that is old is NEW..

    30-06 180 Grain Accubond.


    Wow that's devastating! Almost too much so? A shoulder shot?

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by saint_nick3 View Post
    I think this statement, from the article, sums up any implied ADF&G misguidance that you think might be occurring, "Only consider using a .300, .338 or larger magnum if you can shoot it as well as you can the .30-06."
    True, but they also clearly state "Magnums are not needed". I could see where this might lead an inexperienced hunter to bring his/her deer rifle to a bear fight. Perhaps they should say... If you can learn to shoot a Magnum, that would be a better choice. Really, if my father who does not hunt much read their 06 recommendation and was planning a big bear hunt, I would rip that up and take him to the range with my 375!

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    It is. And not just for Alaska, for North America.



    Yup.



    We have a winner. No more calls please.




    It's in all in your head. I swear I'll never ever understand this love for these field artillery pieces, but perhaps that is in my head as well.
    Have you ever defended yourself from an angry bear with your 06? Perhaps bear spray is better for that anyway? When I went metal detecting/prospecting out of Anchorage, they told me to leave my 44 mag home, but to bring bear spray.

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    Member gunbugs's Avatar
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    It is impossible to kill brown bear with any non-magnum caliber, IMPOSSIBLE, I Say! You might want to tell this guy.....But wait...That can't be...a 30 carbine.....Hunter_with_rifle_and_two_slain_bears.jpg
    "A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cabochris View Post
    So when you shoot a moose and that bear dinner bell rings, you're all at ease dressing your game with your 06 nearby?


    Have any of you defended yourself from an angry bear using your 30-06. Please share. And do you agree the 06 is actually better than a 300Win within 200 yards because the bullets perform better with less meat destruction?
    First question is yes and no. If I had iron sites on my 06, then the answer would be yes. I'm going to look for another optic this winter to replace. I like my redfield that I have on my 06, but I want to have iron sites installed and a scope with ring mounts so I can use either or. I use my 870 with slugs for dressing out the moose.

    I've never been charged by a bear, however if I was I would have no problem defending myself with just an 06. Heck I'd tackle the bear with my judo skills (I kid of course about the second part).

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    I think a lot of guys have 'magnumitis,' and think they have to carry a 338 or 375.

    I think its more important for non-res to bring a gun they're comfortable and can shoot than to pony up for a 'new' magnum just to come hunt in AK, whether its for moose, 'bou or bear. You truly only need an '06 up here for most big game--as long as you can shoot it. My go to gun in a Tika 30-06.

    Tim
    Tim, the Tikka 06 is the one I was going to have bored to 35 Whelen. Why, because so many say 35 calibers kill bigger animals noticeably better than 30s. Well, it sort of makes sense when you look at a 250 grain 35 next to any 30 cal! Perhaps that's all Bull?

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Hamon View Post
    Yes, I agree with ADFG. Accuracy trumps power in my opinion, and at some point power prevents accuracy. That point is different for every person. But I would rather be in the field with somebody that can shoot their gun accurately, even if it is a .243, than somebody that has a huge magnum that they can't handle. Obviously the .243 is a pretty darn light load, but accuracy really is that important in my opinion.
    Very clever- but shouldn't hunters care enough about the sport to learn to shoot a decent caliber gun properly? Otherwise resort to a different sport? Why my petite High School girlfriend enjoyed shooting my 375 & 338 off the bench- full power handloads!

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    It is impossible to kill brown bear with any non-magnum caliber, IMPOSSIBLE, I Say! You might want to tell this guy.....But wait...That can't be...a 30 carbine.....Hunter_with_rifle_and_two_slain_bears.jpg
    I hear it's been done with a .22 Mag by an Eskimo woman at just feet in the eye. I believe also with a Buck pocketknife! (saw that on Wild West Guns show)

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