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Thread: 3 or 4 Brow Tines?

  1. #1
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    Default 3 or 4 Brow Tines?

    At what point does a Brow Tine become just a point and not classified as a legal Brow Tine. This bull measures at 50 1/2 inches, so he's legal.... barely. I'm referring to the right side brow #4. When I shot him I was counting it as a 3x4 and thus wasn't too concerned with the width as it looked small to me. I had him estimated at 46-48 inches. I have since been informed that I more than likely made an error in my brow tine count and was saved from an expensive lesson by half an inch. Since God blessed me with a legal bull I'm not going to lose sleep over it but I would definitely like to be more educated for the future so as to save myself some legal trouble.
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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    3x3,, You can read the legal definition, but I use the main blood vessel that feeds the browtine as a guide and have seen the troopers use it, that is where I learned of it. The first tine after the browtines as usually a major tine and that is also a reference.

    There was talk at one of the BOG meeting about the need to have a better definition, they exchanged different ideas but even the most experienced could not verbalize a better description than was already in the regs. The BOG member said and he is right,, hard to put into words but easy to see with the eye.

    Congrats, better lucky than good any day.

    Steve
    Last edited by stid2677; 09-25-2014 at 00:28.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I too will say 3X3 but would bet there is a trooper somewhere that could say the one side has no brow tines just a palm.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member alaska_pike's Avatar
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    The right side looks like 4. It appears to have 4 brow times that come off of a brow palm, as long as that broken tine is longer than it is wide.

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    Most of the WPOs that I have known wouldn't bother going to court based on these brow tines.

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    I just read the regs again, looked at their pics, etc. IF we take the broken tine out of the equation, and IF I was a trooper (I'm not), there would be no way I could in good conscience write you a ticket.
    Did F&G tell you that when you had the antlers sealed here?
    Vance in AK.

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    It was a 4x3 at one time, not anymore. Solid 3x3 now.
    I believe that IF it wasn't 50 1/2", but say a 48 1/2"... You'd "probably" get a day in court. That broken tip "appears" to me, to be an inch or juuust a scosh wider then an inch wide at the tip....
    You got lucky...

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    Was it the broken tine they were concerned over?
    Vance in AK.

    Matthew 6:33
    "But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by VernAK View Post
    Most of the WPOs that I have known wouldn't bother going to court based on these brow tines.
    Agreed, the right brow palm just isn't well defined. There is no way you could get 10 hunters to agree on the number of tines, let alone a jury. Congratulations on the moose!

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    Pretty sure the broken tine is a non-issue. Still long enough to be considered a point. The issue is the 4th tine from the beam (on the right antler). It is NOT considered a "brow tine". It's part of the palm. The trooper that explained it to me said that the "depth" between brow formations and the next point is the determing factor.

  11. #11

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    How does a broken tine as in this case to a broken horn on a ram? Seems I have seen rams that got around the full curl due to damage

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    Im not concerned with the Broken point. My point of interest is the point on the right side of the right brow tines. Skulls and bones has the rack at the moment, so I can't measure the broken point to see how it stacks up against the regs. I can see where the blood vein was between number 3 and 4 Stid is talking about. The guy that sealed it for me looked relieved when I mentioned that it was 50 1/2. There where quite a few people there getting various critters sealed, and as I know the guy I intended to discuss it with him later. But I haven't had an opportunity to to do so yet. I've read the regulations several times in the past few days and, to me at least, it seems to be a tough call either way. When I get an official answer from the guy that sealed it I'll post it.

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    Alrighty then.
    The official word is that it is a tough call either way. But the official ruling is 4 brow tines, it could be called either way, but in court it would be ruled as four brow tines.


    I've showed the pictures to many I would say are very educated on sizing moose, and the results are pretty much split down the middle, some say 3, some say 4.
    I'm gonna go with the official ADFG ruling of 4 brow tines and be more observant/selective next go around. Thanks for all the input.

  14. #14
    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    I would say 3x4 as well, mainly because of the large "Y" between the 4th brow tine and the first point on the palm......
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  15. #15

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    My gut tells me 3 on the left and 4 on the right, but I could see where some might argue that there are no real true brow tines on the right side. To me there seems like no clear separation between the brow tines and the main palms. I would be curious to hear what a brown shirt would call it. Have you had it checked by anyone from fish and feathers?

    Oh, never mind, I just read your last post.

  16. #16

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    that's a 4X3 IMO. The palm on the right browtine mass is connected to that questionable 4th tine. No doubt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushwhack Jack View Post
    My gut tells me 3 on the left and 4 on the right, but I could see where some might argue that there are no real true brow tines on the right side. To me there seems like no clear separation between the brow tines and the main palms.
    Page 30 F&G regs..... " Brow tine means a tine emerging from the first branch or brow palm on the main beam of a moose antler; the brow palm is separated from the main palm by a wide bay; a tine originating in or after this bay is not a brow tine."

    It also says...."brow tines emerge from the brow palm or near the base of the antler and typically project forward."

    Tell me you can not see the large bay (I called it a "Y" in my post above) between that 4th brow tine and first point on the palm? To me it's pretty obvious like on the other side. Also, that first point on the main palm after the bay is not pointing forward like the 4 on the brow palm.

    I know that when I am evaluating brow tines when hunting I always look for that wide bay. It's a pretty determining factor imo.......
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  18. #18
    Member Redlander's Avatar
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    I might have gotten burned, but I'd have counted it a 3 by 4 brow tines.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Bartlett View Post
    that's a 4X3 IMO. The palm on the right browtine mass is connected to that questionable 4th tine. No doubt.
    Exactly.....
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

  20. #20

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    3x4 IMO......

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