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Thread: Another "Is this moose legal" thread

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Default Another "Is this moose legal" thread

    Before anyone answers, review the moose ID pages here. Especially the infographic in the pink box in the lower right corner of page 1.
    Consider that this is a bull from GMU13 taken under a harvest ticket for the rules.







    FYI - I did not shoot this bull. The rack was found on the side of the road where it had bounced out of a rig. Cantwell troopers have the rack and are in contact with the hunter that took the bull.

    I will post photos that include a tape measure once we play this game for a while.

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Not 50, Does NOT have 4 browtines. They thought that right side has 4 points, but it would appear that at least one and possibly two are not longer than they are wide.

    I would have let that one walk.
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    3 browtine to me. Pic only shows one side of the antler. Atleast on my phone but no way it goes 50". I would guess they thought that nub was long enough to count as a 4th browtine when they pulled the trigger.


    The other 2 pics just loaded. I can see where they counted 4 browtine on the other side. However I agree with what was said above. Points not an inch longer than wide. No way it goes 50. Someone didnt look it over hard enough.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    If it was found on the side of the road, how do you know it was taken in GMU 13?

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    Quote Originally Posted by theultrarider View Post
    3 browtine to me. Pic only shows one side of the antler. Atleast on my phone but no way it goes 50". I would guess they thought that nub was long enough to count as a 4th browtine when they pulled the trigger.


    The other 2 pics just loaded. I can see where they counted 4 browtine on the other side. However I agree with what was said above. Points not an inch longer than wide. No way it goes 50. Someone didnt look it over hard enough.
    Just FYI - They don't have to be an inch longer than they are wide. They have to be at least an inch long andlonger than they are wide. Two separate requirements. It could be 1 1/4" long and count as a point as long as it was less than 1 1/4" wide.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    If it was found on the side of the road, how do you know it was taken in GMU 13?
    Denali highway

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    Member JuliW's Avatar
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    I would like to see a measuring tape on the right brow tines... by definition a point or tine is an antler projection at least one inch long, and longer than it is wide, with the width measured one inch or more from the tip....That means to me that you square off starting at the top of the tine..not that you measure the width from where it meets the palmated part of the antler....
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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    Denali highway
    Roger that...and considering that "the Troopers are in contact with the shooter", it sounds like they don't consider it a 4 brow-tiner.

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    I don't see four brow tines,three and two at best.
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    That looks very close to 50 and very very close to being 4 tines on the right side (moose right, not pic right). So close that I think that 2 guys with a ruler could judge it differently.

    For those that don't see 4 brow tines, how many browtines do you see in this pic:

    P9190280.JPG

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrex13 View Post
    That looks very close to 50 and very very close to being 4 tines on the right side (moose right, not pic right). So close that I think that 2 guys with a ruler could judge it differently.

    For those that don't see 4 brow tines, how many browtines do you see in this pic:

    P9190280.JPG
    I see two browtines for sure (outer two). The inner two "points" may or may not qualify depending on the physical measurements. I think the larger of the two inner ones is likely a "tine", but not totally certain (the tip narrows down and stretches out a bit at the end, so an inch or so back it does look like it could be longer than it is wide). The smaller of the inner ones looks the most suspect and likely is not good as a "tine".

    Definitely don't think this is close to 50". Much closer to a 40" from what I can tell. Would never consider it to qualify as a 50".

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    Member JuliW's Avatar
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    If I had to guess width, I would guess just barely 50" ..... maybe 51"

    I would not shoot it in the field based on width, that is for sure, even though here it looks like it barely meets the 50"..... I don't think the second point from the left, on the right brow is a legal tine. Hard to say without a tape...
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    Member tyrex13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuliW View Post
    If I had to guess width, I would guess just barely 50" ..... maybe 51"

    I would not shoot it in the field based on width, that is for sure, even though here it looks like it barely meets the 50"..... I don't think the second point from the left, on the right brow is a legal tine. Hard to say without a tape...
    I would guess 47-48, but certainly bigger than 40". It's a very close animal, would love to know the outcome..

  14. #14

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    I'm fairly certain I would have pulled the trigger on that bull in a 4 brow tine area. I think I would have argued till my face turned blue if I was informed by the troopers it is an illegal bull. Obviously not 50, but sure looks like 4 brow tines to me. Too much gray area I think. At what point do you make the width measurement vs. the length measurement. The diagram on the F&G website doesn't show the curve of the antler where the point begins, it only shows a portion of the point. I'm sure you could stretch a tape to make the argument either way.

    Taking a look at the pictures on the ground and close up is one thing, watching the bull from 100-200 yards away in the field is another. Those tines are well defined and not just small stubs.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Nearly 50", bigger than 40"....how about 37 1/2" in real life?



    In your best Get Smart voice say "missed it by that much" when viewing the photos below. This is just the one tine "but its got four brow tines" on the right antler (left side in above image in the OP). I should have also measured the two fat tines thay may just be at 1" by 1"

    Tip down 1" to start with.


    Then across that point its 1 1/8" plus a hair.


    Here it is sitting on a 48" wide table. There is lots of left over table surface at each end. I also measured across the bases just above the eye line and it was exactly 8".


    When I first picked these up off the road I was pretty tired and it was very dark. I thought nothing of the one side having a four brow tine issue. In the light of a the next morning it was obvious that there was an issue so I took photos to use as examples of what can get you in trouble. When I finally met the trooper on the way out he said that the hunter had been in contact with them since the rack was lost and that it was known to be sublegal. In the tip measurement photo you see what looks like a pencil line on the tine near the 1" mark on the tape. That was there when I found the rack. When handing the rack to the trooper he went right for that specific tine to check. I guess he had seen photos from the hunter. He was not concerned about any other tines on the brows.

    This should serve as a good example for what to look for if you are not looking at a moose that has an obviously wide rack. When counting brow tines make sure each tine looks like a finger and not a lump. If the tines are wide and flat rather than narrow points you may want to tripple check what you are seeing.

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    Member Meanderthal's Avatar
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    Kudos to the guy for contacting Troopers but I doubt they would have given him much trouble for it had he not called it sublegal.
    I guess they have to draw the line somewhere but I think a little descretion is in order here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    When counting brow tines make sure each tine looks like a finger and not a lump. If the tines are wide and flat rather than narrow points you may want to tripple check what you are seeing.
    That pretty much sums it up....... Great example....

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerod View Post
    I'm fairly certain I would have pulled the trigger on that bull in a 4 brow tine area. I think I would have argued till my face turned blue if I was informed by the troopers it is an illegal bull. Obviously not 50, but sure looks like 4 brow tines to me. Too much gray area I think. At what point do you make the width measurement vs. the length measurement. The diagram on the F&G website doesn't show the curve of the antler where the point begins, it only shows a portion of the point. I'm sure you could stretch a tape to make the argument either way.

    Taking a look at the pictures on the ground and close up is one thing, watching the bull from 100-200 yards away in the field is another. Those tines are well defined and not just small stubs.
    Prior to handling these with a copy of the regulations in my hand I may have shot this one too on the last hour of the last day of the season. However, now that I have had a chance to experience the situation with no consequences I would hold off on any bull even close to this.

    When live this bull would have been seen head on and the width of the too small tine on its right side may not have been apparent to the hunter. From all my front photos the tine looks legit. Its when you turn it upside down or from above that you get that sinking feeling that the tine is really just a lump only slightly longer than the lump on the left antler.

    As for the diagram in the regulations it is pretty clear that the main part of the antler - palm - is not considered for the tine legallity determination. It all starts at the tip and goes back just one inch, so no other aspec of the antler matters.

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meanderthal View Post
    Kudos to the guy for contacting Troopers but I doubt they would have given him much trouble for it.
    Not much trouble. They took the meat when it was reported and then the horns from me once the trooper and I crossed paths. I had showed the rack to a couple of folks trying to find the "owner", so the trooper knew that someone had them and was actively searching for me to collect the evidence of a crime.

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    Member Meanderthal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    Not much trouble. They took the meat when it was reported and then the horns from me once the trooper and I crossed paths. I had showed the rack to a couple of folks trying to find the "owner", so the trooper knew that someone had them and was actively searching for me to collect the evidence of a crime.
    Wow, thanks for posting about this experience.
    It has been educational for me.

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