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Thread: Camping and hunting in a cua (controlled use area)

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Default Camping and hunting in a cua (controlled use area)

    I want to know everyone’s interpretation of camping with a hunting party when hunting within a cua.

    Just to be clear, here is what it states regarding the CUA:

    “Closed to the use of any motorized vehicle for hunting, including the transportation of hunters, their hunting gear, or parts of game, except for brown/grizzly bears, wolves, and small game from March 15 through June 30; however, this provision does not prohibit motorized access, or transportation of game, on the Denali Highway”

    Scenario:

    A couple of guys are going hunting and walking or biking in to Maclaren glacier/river and floating out. Partner #3 is a non-resident and NOT a licensed hunter and is just going camping on the trip and mostly going to stay in camp and cook; maybe stray and pick blue berries and take pictures. Both hunting buddies bicycle in, or walk in with a raft/canoe and hunting/camping gear and partner #3 drives a truck in with his personal gear at the same time.

    Since partner # 3 is camping and not hunting, what gear can he bring in? Can he bring in his own raft, since it’s a float trip? His own food and camp gear? If he’s not hunting and just camping with a hunting party what personal gear and camping gear can he bring? Is this a legit scenario or not? Does this violate the spirit of the law or not?

    Tim

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    Definitely borderline in my opinion, I don't know how the hunters could prove their gear was not hauled in the truck, or even if they need to.


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    Member tyrex13's Avatar
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    I believe it is impossible for the non hunter to not assist in any way. The headlights are assisting the walk at night. The extra body in camp is assisting with camp chores. Just having a vehicle there is assisting with the safety and security aspect of the hunt. I think it is unethical and way to gray area for me to consider participating in, not to mention the appearance of wrong doing that I would want no part of.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Since partner # 3 is camping and not hunting, what gear can he bring in? Can he bring in his own raft, since it’s a float trip? His own food and camp gear? If he’s not hunting and just camping with a hunting party what personal gear and camping gear can he bring? Is this a legit scenario or not? Does this violate the spirit of the law or not?

    Tim
    IMO he can bring in ONLY his gear. If they are stop by a LEO the officer will be very suspicious of the truth. If a slip of the tongue make the LEO think someone is lying you will be in trouble. Be very careful what you say, everything you say will be recorded and used against you.

  5. #5

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    I think it would be difficult to convince an officer that the truck parked at a hunting camp was used solely by your buddy for non-hunting purposes. I think this scenario would guarantee a visit by an officer. If I saw your scenario back there I'd have some serious questions and may report it.

    I think it would be a lot easier to just rent a pack raft (lightweight) and have him walk in with you. I know if I was guy #3 I would feel like poop if I couldn't help out doing anything. Plus, why wouldn't guy #1 and #2 want the extra help of #3?

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    I believe that if you are hunting,, no motorized. If someone wants to hang, throw on a pack and walk in. Asking for drama otherwise. That is what we do.

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  7. #7

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    While I think it would technically be legal, I wouldn't be one to try it out. If for no other reason, I wouldn't want the hassle of trying to explain the situation and possibly having to fight a citation if the LEO didn't believe me or didn't interpret the regs the same way. Really, if I am hiking/biking in to an area with all my camping and hunting gear, why wouldn't the other member(s) of the camping trip be able to do the same with their gear?

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    Member theultrarider's Avatar
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    Spirit of the law VS the letter of the law.

    We all know what the spirit of the law is here. It boils down to what your morals allow you to do whether its ok to use a loophole in the law should there be one. A walk in hunt is a walk in hunt in my book.

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theultrarider View Post
    Spirit of the law VS the letter of the law.

    We all know what the spirit of the law is here. It boils down to what your morals allow you to do whether its ok to use a loophole in the law should there be one. A walk in hunt is a walk in hunt in my book.
    +1,, what he said.
    "I refuse to let the things I can't do stop me from doing the things I can"
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  10. #10

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    Ditto........
    Quote Originally Posted by theultrarider View Post
    spirit of the law vs the letter of the law.

    We all know what the spirit of the law is here. It boils down to what your morals allow you to do whether its ok to use a loophole in the law should there be one. A walk in hunt is a walk in hunt in my book.

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    Member tyrex13's Avatar
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    This is how we did it, coming out, meat on the bottom, camp on top. My non hunting girlfriend walked in and we had a blast.


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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I think Tim knew the answer from the start but wondered if he set his standards to high on right and wrong.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    It's really not a good idea to push it. If you really want to try this, you might check ahead of time with the trooper(s) who patrol that area, to let them know what you're thinking of doing, ask if it's okay, and get a very clear idea of the boundaries of what the out-of-stater can do with the truck if anything. My guess is they would say don't bring the truck, period.
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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    I think you could do it if partner #3 maintained a separate camp, cooking, tent, etc. His camp would have to be some distance, don't ask me what, away from the hunters camp. No assistance could be offered to the hunters and hunters camp. Maybe you could have a beverage together at night!!
    But in no way would I think it was worth the risk!!!!!
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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    Yes, shorthanded LE has tough enough chores - make it easier for them - and you.
    Gray areas begone.
    "Punish the monkey - let the organ grinder go" - Mark Knopfler

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    I think Tim knew the answer from the start but wondered if he set his standards to high on right and wrong.
    That’s part of it, Amigo.

    Fyi, it never occurred to me to try and skirt the law; something I read on another forum got me thinking about it though, and how far it could be played out to ‘camp’ while you’re hunting. Just like I said in the op, just wondering what others think about this and whether it’s legal, not moral. Imo, morally, I think this is a no-brainer.

    Never saw this kind of stuff (people 'not hunting,' yet have a rifle, gear, etc…, groups driving in and claiming to not know its in a cua, and yes, one party dropping off gear late at night and then walking in when its dark) happening before the tier 1 fiasco in unit 13, but now it seems rampant.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Troutnut View Post
    It's really not a good idea to push it. If you really want to try this, you might check ahead of time with the trooper(s) who patrol that area, to let them know what you're thinking of doing, ask if it's okay, and get a very clear idea of the boundaries of what the out-of-stater can do with the truck if anything. My guess is they would say don't bring the truck, period.
    Actually, I'd like to know what is legal (never questioned it before and assumed ANYONE driving in the party was out of line) and I'm going to call the troopers in Cantwell and ADF&G in Glenallen, just for their interpretation. I can't imagine either party giving their blessing to this, unless its like MT said and you're not even camped together. However, I'll probably get an ambiguous answer from either/both.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyrex13 View Post
    This is how we did it, coming out, meat on the bottom, camp on top. My non hunting girlfriend walked in and we had a blast.

    Beaut cart. Looks like you got it all on there too!!

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    Member Kay9Cop's Avatar
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    I guess I need to weigh in on this again. This wasn't discussed on another forum, as Tim says, but right here on this forum under the Unit 13 caribou thread. I am the offending party tyrex13 was pointing fingers at in the other thread and Tim is alluding to in this one. Here's the back story:

    Two of my friends and I decided to hunt the Clearwater Creek Controlled Use Area. One friend had the Tier 1 caribou tag, the other wanted to look for a bear, and I was interested in a spike/fork moose. Realistically we just hoped to get my friend a caribou. My girlfriend, the non-hunter in question, is an avid camper and also wanted to come along. She's camped along the Denali for the last two decades and was excited for another trip.

    The most time we could muster was three days off and we work mid shift to boot, so our plan was to leave right after getting off of work. My girlfriend and I were going to bike in and my two friends were going to hike in. We figured after grabbing a couple of hours of sleep we would get there hopefully about dinner time and get camp set up by dark. We planned to hunt one day and pack out the other day, saving the last day for driving back. If we didn't tag out we would leave after just the one day of hunting. We decided in advance to just take one animal and leave. This was our first time hunting the area and a first hunt ever for the guy with the caribou tag, so we figured it would at least be a good scouting trip.

    The week before we were set to leave my girlfriend suffered a fairly serious hip injury and couldn't carry any weight. I reviewed the regulations and made a few phone calls to verify my new plan was valid.

    When we arrived at the CCUA, we off loaded all of the hunting gear and my bike. We actually ran into a guy I suspect was tyrex13 at the trail and had a conversation with him. He mentioned hiking out his caribou 13 miles. The gentleman never mentioned anything about concern about what we were doing, otherwise we would have taken the time to re-assure him and explain what we were doing. We had nothing to hide and he could have even looked in the Jeep if he was that worried. He can also verify that we packed in so much gear with us that it looked like, as he put it in the other thread, "sheep hunting".

    My friends each packed in their own gear and they even drove their own truck to the CCUA, so they weren't even associated with the Jeep. I packed on my back and bike all of my gear and also any gear that my girlfriend might use communally, like the stove, lighters, tent, etc. The only things in the Jeep were her clothes, food, books, finger nail polish, and other girl stuff. She drove to the camp site, my friends walked, and I biked. We made it there later than we planned and went in after sunset. According to tyrex13, we snuck in "under the cover of night"...we work mids, so walking at night with headlamps wasn't unfamiliar.

    The next morning my girlfriend stayed at camp and read, did her nails, took some scenery photos, and basically enjoyed herself. We hunted farther down the road, saw nine moose (none legal), and not one caribou or bear. Just before sunset we made it back to camp.

    While we were cooking our dinner we were visited by Trooper Ellison. He checked our licenses and asked about the Jeep. He wasn't the one I spoke to prior to the hunt, but I explained what we did to him and I saw him give everything a visual once over. I could tell he was examining what was in the Jeep without being too obvious about it. No citations were issued.

    Let me repeat that: No citations were issued.

    He had watched the camp from afar for quite some time with a spotting scope and was satisfied we hadn't committed any violations.

    I can tell you that what Tim posted as the regulation governing CUAs in Alaska is correct. We also abided strictly to that regulation. At no point was motorized transport used for the transport of hunters, gear, or their game. I can also tell you that we abided by the spirit of the law in that my girlfriend didn't assist with the hunt. We cooked our own food, gathered our own water, etc.

    I agree with those questioning the possibility of abuse of the CUA by skirting the regulation. My friends and I even discussed it that night, talking about how easy someone could convince themselves they could break the rules and not be caught. In my case my morals are just fine and were not bruised in the slightest by our actions. As with any hunting violation it comes down to each own hunter's morals and integrity; rules are just rules and we each make our own individual choices about following them or not. We also live with the consequences of following them or not. The internet masses can speculate about what they "know" I really did, but I sleep easy at night knowing I didn't skirt anything.

    Tim asked in the other thread if he could have his boys accompany him on fourwheelers into the CUA since they wouldn't be hunters, and my advice to him is the same I would give to anyone else and did myself: call the Troopers and ask about your specific situation before you take any risks.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

  20. #20
    Member Kay9Cop's Avatar
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    I should also add that if you see a potential violation you should report it immediately to AST. Things like getting license plates; hunter descriptions such as height, weight, race, and clothing; and specific details about what exactly you saw can go a long way to helping AST take action. Waiting to complain about it on an internet forum does nothing to help conserve our resources or prevent a violation before it occurs.
    "Beware the man with only one gun; he may know how to use it."

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