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Thread: What Does Right Look Like?

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    Member Armymark's Avatar
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    Default What Does Right Look Like?

    So I got a new Ruger Super Redhawk Toklat. I'm impressed after toting the 329PD for a few years. I am pretty good with a rifle and a shotgun but honestly, I'm no handgun expert. I have a new Ruger Super Redhawk Toklat and I'm impressed. Having carried a 329PD and shooting it a lot, I was accustomed to heavy recoil and short barrel accuracy.


    I have loaded mid-way, by the book hand loads and the recoil is nothing but enjoyable. This has me thinking, what have I been missing? So I'd like to first off discount my short comings as a handgun shooter and ask a couple things.


    I shoot mostly in single action mode even with my double action revolver. I do practice in double and single action but I shoot the best, cocking the revolver and then shooting. So what modifications are there that make shooting without cocking first? I know that some people cheat and reduce spring pressure, I don't want that. I want a smooth, even pull without it stacking up. I want it to go bang every time, as it is primarily a defense weapon. I believe that slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

    So what makes a good defense revolver with regard to trigger pull, sights and reliability? I have fallen in love with the Toklat. I'm looking at a load pushing the 340gn BTB bullet at about 1300-1400fps. I'm not really into porting, mostly interested in making it smooth, reliable accurate.


    Thoughts?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The more you shoot it the smoother it will get.An action job is just speeded up normal wear. I shoot my DA's 95% single action and always when hunting. My DA shooting is only for that ten foot away bear or perp.Congrats on the fine gun.
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    Member Armymark's Avatar
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    I've read that the Toklat is a TALO and I know what that is but, I've also read that the TALO exclusive comes with with two sets of sights, with a set being express sights and a set of rings. Mine had rings and the irons on it and a peice of brass wire or rod. What are express sights for a handgun? Is the Toklat offered in different confifigurations?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armymark View Post
    ................

    So what makes a good defense revolver with regard to trigger pull, sights and reliability? I have fallen in love with the Toklat. I'm looking at a load pushing the 340gn BTB bullet at about 1300-1400fps. I'm not really into porting, mostly interested in making it smooth, reliable accurate.


    Thoughts?
    My thoughts, probably won't match anyone's else thoughts.............

    I use the same bullet, 340 BTB, but I load it to 1200 fps.........don't think there is a gain going to 1300-1400 fps.....

    At 1200 fps I use 45 Clot brass or cutoff 460 S&W brass....I do that so I can use large pistol primers....easier to dent than small rifle primers = reliability...

    I use VV-110 powder, I've had 2 FTF with H-110, in cold weather, primer did go off, but not powder. Sometimes I use IMR 4227.....

    I have the nose of the hammer milled down a bit for harder firing pin hit = reliability....

    I "cheat" and use lighter springs, not sure why you think that is cheating? I do my own trigger jobs, all my revolvers are set at 3 1/2# single, 8 1/2# double action.
    I get 100% reliability at those weights.....

    As for as sights go, kind of like grips, to each his own......

    I shoot double action 99% of the time........I started out bad at it, then found a sweet spot, and now can shoot better groups double action....practice, practice.
    I believe my groups are better double because I don't change my grip between shots, my theory anyway...........

    I'm lucky, the Super Redhawk Alaskan grip fits me "PERFECT", as does the x frame S&W grip.

    Don't know what to think about you not getting the express sights with the gun. Call Ruger they might send them to you.......
    "The older I get, the better I was."

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    I agree with Will about cycling it a lot. When new my redhawk was a stiff SOB. After 500 dry fires it was better, I am up to about 7000 total cycles between dry fires adn actual rounds down range, no other action work on teh gun and I am very happy with it now.

    One option, once you are into a good holster is go to some steel target shoots with it. You'll probably need to load 230 gr bullets to about 750-800fps, but they wil count for smoothing out the trigger. Both of the .orgs I shot with in Fbx (IPDA and USSPsomethign) required doubel action shooting only at the firing line. I did four or five shoots one summer and am a much better DA shooter from the experience.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    To improve your DA accuracy I'd suggest trying to slightly change how you squeeze off your shots. Instead of working through the entire DA pull to fire, pull the trigger back to just shy of firing, then squeeze off the shot. I've found that this technique is more accuracy than firing single action as your hand is in tension when you squeeze off the shot and thus you have a more solid hold on the gun. This works both offhand and from the bench.

    I tried lighter springs in my 480 srh and had problems with inconsistant ignition at colder temps with H-110. Hangfires are never fun and don't instill confidence in a defensive handgun. So I went back to the factory springs and the gun has been 100% reliable. I smoothed up the sear surfaces with a 600gr stone and d/t'd the frame for an overtravel screw. Other than that my action is stock and after ~5000 rounds fairly smooth.

    My one gripe with Ruger is that their best handgun configurations seem to be distributor specials, specifically the Toklat and the 5 1/2" ss bisley, and what they really need is a 480 version of the Toklat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    To improve your DA accuracy I'd suggest trying to slightly change how you squeeze off your shots. Instead of working through the entire DA pull to fire, pull the trigger back to just shy of firing, then squeeze off the shot. I've found that this technique is more accuracy than firing single action as your hand is in tension when you squeeze off the shot and thus you have a more solid hold on the gun. This works both offhand and from the bench.
    I need to try that.

    Actually, I've heard it before, but described, maybe not as well as you have.

    I didn't have much luck, but this time, I could use Snap Caps, and practice that way first.

    I prefer SA, because the recoil of DA shooting tends to hurt my paw. SA shooting doesn't.

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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    To improve your DA accuracy I'd suggest trying to slightly change how you squeeze off your shots. Instead of working through the entire DA pull to fire, pull the trigger back to just shy of firing, then squeeze off the shot. I've found that this technique is more accuracy than firing single action as your hand is in tension when you squeeze off the shot and thus you have a more solid hold on the gun. This works both offhand and from the bench.
    Bingo. That's the secret with a Ruger action. Straight through on a Smith, but there's a handy "stop" in the cycle of the Ruger just as the cylinder indexes. Start feeling for that in your dry firing and pretty quick it will become as natural as breathing. Accurate as Paul points out, too.

    I'm a dedicated DA shooter, having chased DA accuracy and control through all sorts of models and calibers over just shy of 50 years of it. One "trick" that will really help your DA control and limit side-shifts as you cycle the action. Use a Dremel followed by a very fine stone to just round the edges of the trigger so they don't grab your finger in the cycle, and don't have such a tendency to let you pull sideways on the letoff. I'm not talking a lot of rounding. Just extend the radius onto the flat face of the trigger about as far as the trigger is thick, if you follow that. You leave about 90% of the trigger face flat, even as you take away the sharp edges by rounding them a little. Polished smooth as a baby's bottom, those rounded edges will make a huge difference, especially when shooting fast with plenty of recoil.

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    Member Armymark's Avatar
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    Oh this terrible! You mean I have to shoot it a lot? I guess I'll need to buy some more bullets. And dry fire drills will help smooth it out, so I'm going to need to work on that. Whoa is me!

    Thanks for all of the input, I learn a lot hangin out around here.

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    BrownBear and Paul H make really good points. I remember now that I did use a dremel and a fine stone on the trigger finger side of my stock redhawk trigger. It was probably BrownBear's idea that I read in a differetn thread, did it, glad. Thanks BB.

    Also on the pull the trigger right to just before let off and then finish your squeeze came to me pretty quick doing steel target matches. With not much practice at all I found myself having the trigger mostly pulled while the gun was still in recoil, then I could (and do) finalize the site pictire before letting go that last little bit on the trigger.

    One dude with a bunch more experience at one of the shoots (with my permission) was dryfiring at the handling table - empty gun checked like six times to be really sure it was empty - anyway just by pulling the trigger he was able to hand it back to be fully cocked and ready to fire SA. I can feel that click when I shoot DA, I actually pull just a wee bit past that click so my actual DA final trigger pull is even less than the factory SA pull. And, as Paul pointed out, my hand is already in tension leading to much better accuracy.

    Call up your range. They probably want something like 230grains at 750 fps so they can put you in with a group of 1911 shooters. Once you have mentioned to the first couple people that ask that you are "shooting with my field gun so I can handle my field gun better" no one is going to give you any crap. If you keep going back you might notice in late summer right before hunting season opens that several people with high dollar race guns show up with field guns for the last shoot before moose opens. You'll get plenty of respect just for showing up.

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    For dry fire practice pic out certain letters or numbers in commercials while watching tv. Jeff Cooper wrote about doing this before every hunting trip to familiarise himself with his guns. Your family may give you some weird looks at first but it's good practice, costs nothing and is amusing. Ill even wear my holster and practice my draw strokes and hand placement, it'll become second nature in no time and you'll become much faster. Rugers revolvers are like Browning shotguns they wear in not out.

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