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Thread: Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan 44 mag question

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    Default Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan 44 mag question

    I am considering purchasing a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan in 44 mag and was looking at the 330 gr. Garrett's 44 mag + P Hammerhead ammo for extra horsepower when needed but then, I noticed this on Garrett's website (see below).
    Anyone with experience with this ammo on an Alaskan 2.5" barrel? Going to send Garrett an email as well but wanted to check with members here too.
    330-gr SuperHardCast Long-Hammerhead. Garrett's 44 Mag +P Hammerhead Ammo

    1275-fps from 4” barrel
    RECOMMENDED FOR USE ONLY IN RUGER REDHAWK, SUPER REDHAWK, TAURUS RAGING BULL, DAN WESSON, AND CUSTOM SINGLE-ACTION LONG-CYLINDERED REVOLVERS BUILT BY HAMILTON BOWEN, GARY REEDER, AND JOHN GALLAGHER. THIS AMMO IS NOT RECOMMENDED FOR USE IN ANY REVOLVER WITH A BARREL LENGTH OF LESS THAN 4-INCHES. THIS AMMO IS TOO LONG FOR USE IN RIFLES.



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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I'm guessing the recommendation on barrel length is that the velocity from the less than 4" barrel is so low that the bullet won't reliably stabalize, but it should still be clocking close to 1200 fps.

    Only way to know is buy a box and see how it shoots from your gun.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I think he is just saying with the short barrel you are not really gaining anything. I have the Alaskan in 454 and carry the heavy BB 45colt ammo in it. Having read you other post I think the 4" redhawk in 44mag/45colt may well serve you better or the Toklat5" SRH.JMOFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    I think he is just saying with the short barrel you are not really gaining anything. I have the Alaskan in 454 and carry the heavy BB 45colt ammo in it. Having read you other post I think the 4" redhawk in 44mag/45colt may well serve you better or the Toklat5" SRH.JMOFO
    Thanks Will; I emailed Garrett as well, asking what ammo + P he would recommend in the Ruger SRH 44 Alaskan, if any. The 4" redhawk is another option, as well as this one http://www.ruger.com/products/superR...eets/5517.html
    I have handled the Wolverine version in 454 and 44 at WWG, very nice and beaucoup $$.

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    +P really just means more powder. In a 2" gun that extra powder will probably burn outside the barrel making a nice blow torch. Plus, it means more recoil, which in a short barreled, lighter, flippier (is that a word?) gun means more chance for crimp jump.

    Personally if I were gonna buy an Alaskan I'd buy the 480 and shoot a 400ish grainer or as heavy as you could and still be accurate and not jump crimp. There's one sitting at Frontier Outfitters here in Fairbanks. I looked at it the other day. Go for caliber and boolit weight and don't get hung up on velocity. Especially in a "belly gun" like the Alaskan.

    In my 4" 454 Redhawk (conversion gun) if I push a 355gr any faster than 1300ish the boolits start to jump crimp. My load is around 1250ish.
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    [QUOTE=Snyd;1418386]+P really just means more powder. In a 2" gun that extra powder will probably burn outside the barrel making a nice blow torch. Plus, it means more recoil, which in a short barreled, lighter, flippier (is that a word?) gun means more chance for crimp jump.

    Does make sens, similar to what Amigo Will was saying; Paul H is bringing up another aspect. Going to be looking more into this.
    Thanks to all for good info.

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    Received an answer from Ashley (Garrett cartridge of Texas) and here is what he had to say.
    What do you guys think?

    Hello Iven,

    Sorry for the delayed reply – Any of our 44 Mag loads will work. Randy Garrett was mostly concerned with “bullet pull” tying up guns and reduced velocity. Stability is not a concern. After much testing and determining that on the average a single round can take the recoil ride over 30 times before it will tie up the gun. I believe this also is not a concern. (Test conducted with a 4” Redhawk w/330+P and a 4” 329 w/310HH.)

    With some folks a main consideration on which load you choose is your gun handlingexperience and how you deal with recoil. I recently fired 12 of each load thru a Super Redhawk Alaskan 2-1/2” just to get average velocity and check for problems. Short test but no problems. Interestingly the recoil of the 330+P out of the Alaskan was noticeably easier on the hands than the same load fired out of my favorite 5-1/2” standard Redhawk.

    Alaskan Test Results;

    310 Defender 934fps
    310 Hammerhead 1092fps
    330+P Hammerhead 1161fps

    The 330 +P Hammerhead cartridge has the integrity to stay together in the Alaskan. If we are talking about using this as a bear defense gun (very close range/hair on front sight) the 1161fps velocity as an impact velocity is right in the ballpark for maximum skull crushing penetration. Until proven otherwise we have the hardest, toughest alloy in the industry.Even with a short barrel the AK is large and heavy. It stings instead of crunches. A “Past” shooting glove will make for more effective practice. You might also obtain a wrist lanyard for when sleeping in bad places. Additionally you may want to get some Black Hills .44SPL Cowboy loads if you are going to practice extensively, just make sure you brush out the chambers real well before loading up for serious business.

    Hope this helps.

    Ashley
    GCTX

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    +P really just means more powder. In a 2" gun that extra powder will probably burn outside the barrel making a nice blow torch. Plus, it means more recoil, which in a short barreled, lighter, flippier (is that a word?) gun means more chance for crimp jump.

    Personally if I were gonna buy an Alaskan I'd buy the 480 and shoot a 400ish grainer or as heavy as you could and still be accurate and not jump crimp. There's one sitting at Frontier Outfitters here in Fairbanks. I looked at it the other day. Go for caliber and boolit weight and don't get hung up on velocity. Especially in a "belly gun" like the Alaskan.

    In my 4" 454 Redhawk (conversion gun) if I push a 355gr any faster than 1300ish the boolits start to jump crimp. My load is around 1250ish.
    Snyd, what do you mean by "jump crimp?" Can you explain that a little, I'm not familiar with that term.

    Thanks,
    Tim

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    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    Snyd, what do you mean by "jump crimp?" Can you explain that a little, I'm not familiar with that term.

    Thanks,
    Tim
    When a round goes off basically recoil sends everything backwards except the boolits in the other rounds. The boolit creeps forward out of the case. If it goes far enough it can tie up the gun cuz the nose will stick out the end of the cylinder and it won't be able to rotate. Heavy boolits, light short barreled guns loaded to max are most prone.

    By reading the post above it sounds like it's not an issue with the Garret ammo. Probably a combo of tight neck tension and good crimp. Buffalo Bore claims they have some special crimp groove and crimp to eliminate crimp jump as well. At least I seem to remember reading some of thier stuff to that effect.
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    [QUOTE=Snyd;
    Personally if I were gonna buy an Alaskan I'd buy the 480 and shoot a 400ish grainer or as heavy as you could and still be accurate and not jump crimp. There's one sitting at Frontier Outfitters here in Fairbanks. I looked at it the other day. Go for caliber and boolit weight and don't get hung up on velocity. Especially in a "belly gun" like the Alaskan.


    Snyd

    Copy, didn't know anything about the 480 Ruger, so looked into it for a few days and it does have some attractive features; actually it sounds just like what the Doc ordered.
    I see BB is making a couple of ammo for 480: [url]https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=16[/url]
    Heavy 480 Ruger Ammo - 410 gr. L.B.T. -W.F.N. (1,200 fps/M.E. 1,311 ft. lbs.)
    Heavy 480 Ruger Ammo - 370 gr. L.B.T. -L.F.N. (1,300 fps/M.E. 1,388 ft. lbs.)
    If you do not mind; what are your thoughts on these?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    If I had a 480 my 44's and 454 would be gone,best of both worlds kinda.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    If I had a 480 my 44's and 454 would be gone,best of both worlds kinda.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Go for caliber and boolit weight and don't get hung up on velocity.
    +1 to both of the above. Give the choice of the .480 or the .44, I'd take the .480, hands down, any day. And a big, fat, 400ish grain bullet doesn't have to be traveling at mach-5 to be affective. If it were me, personally, I'd handload it to no more than about 1100 fps and never lose a minute of sleep over whether I had enough gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    +1 to both of the above. Give the choice of the .480 or the .44, I'd take the .480, hands down, any day. And a big, fat, 400ish grain bullet doesn't have to be traveling at mach-5 to be affective. If it were me, personally, I'd handload it to no more than about 1100 fps and never lose a minute of sleep over whether I had enough gun.
    Sooo, then a 400ish bullet at 1100 is better than a 300ish bullet at 1100? Reely now, How So?

    I can go with the theory that it MIGHT be BETTER to increase power, (Power???) by upping bullet weight rather than adding velocity, but either will increase recoil.

    Aren't heavy bullets in 41, 44, (make that .429) or 45 cal. (at 1100 fps) PLENTY GUN, for all practical purposes?

    I see there is a method to this madness, but it's madness, nonetheless.

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    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    1/3 more bullet weight, and 1/3 more frontal area and deeper penetration. Having personally shot a large selection of 44's, 45/s, 454's, 480, 475's and 500's I can attest that the 480 offers the biggest thump w/o recoil being an issue. If you can handle the recoil of a 300 gr 44 mag, you can move right up the 480. Recoil is greater, but it's in the same ballpark.

    When you move up to the 475's and 500's that extra 100-150 fps and 5+ gr of powder required to attain that puts the recoil in a different playing field and many people find it extremely difficult to accurately shoot those guns.
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    Its logarithmic I tell ya
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Sooo, then a 400ish bullet at 1100 is better than a 300ish bullet at 1100? Reely now, How So?
    More kinetic energy downrange. Would you rather be T-boned by a Honda doing 20 MPH, or a freight train doing 20 MPH?
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    More kinetic energy downrange. Would you rather be T-boned by a Honda doing 20 MPH, or a freight train doing 20 MPH?
    That is Soooo Gruesome.

    The Freight Train would be more exciting, but I'm sure if would make little difference.

    More Kinetic Energy is meaningless. Except in theory, I wouldn't bounce any farther from one or the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    That is Soooo Gruesome.

    The Freight Train would be more exciting, but I'm sure if would make little difference.

    More Kinetic Energy is meaningless. Except in theory, I wouldn't bounce any farther from one or the other.

    Smitty of the North
    Well I have been to a LOT of wrecks and the train makes a huge difference. I worked a train-V-milk truck wreck years ago and the train going 31mph reduced an 18 when milk truck to such little chunks it was 3 days before we could figure out the make of the tractor involved. The mass of a train dosnt even know it hit something, the Honda will absorb some impact reducing its speed but the train will give it all right back to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Sooo, then a 400ish bullet at 1100 is better than a 300ish bullet at 1100? Reely now, How So?...
    Momentum. Many pistoleros have gone before and done all the testing. Heavier boolits of proper design make deeper holes and keep going when they hit bones and such.

    EDIT... What makes me scratch my head is the velocity part. One can push these heavies too fast. A faster moving boolit slows down faster when it hits it's target like meat and bone. Heavy and "slow" keeps on going. Momentum keeps it going, it doesn't slow down as fast.... okay, now my head itches again... dang
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    More Kinetic Energy is meaningless. Smitty of the North
    Swat yourself in the forehead with a celery stick, then swat yourself in the forehead with a ball peen hammer; then come back and tell us how kinetic energy is meaningless.
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