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Thread: Kenai reds 2014

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    Default Kenai reds 2014

    I was just looking at the run data for past years and it looks like this years high of 64k fish was one of the worst on record. I heard many Alaskans complaining about the poor fishing and dipnetting. Anglers on the river did not do well from most of the people i talked to. While they make the minimum numbers needed why so poor this year? The river was dead the last two weeks of July compared to years past. There were no 100k days this year.There were lots of angry people that i talked to. What up with the poor run?

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    I was just looking at the run data for past years and it looks like this years high of 64k fish was one of the worst on record. I heard many Alaskans complaining about the poor fishing and dipnetting. Anglers on the river did not do well from most of the people i talked to. While they make the minimum numbers needed why so poor this year? The river was dead the last two weeks of July compared to years past. There were no 100k days this year.There were lots of angry people that i talked to. What up with the poor run?
    I was told and also heard it on the radio fishing report that the run is a million fish off last year so much less. The midels were also wrong about what the run was going to be. We have many pinks here tandem sterling area and the sonar is counting many pinks not sockeye but no one knows how many not even fish game because they did not start to separate them yet even though they could. I would not say the run is unusually poor just not a good one

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    I wonder why they let the drifters loose so much if that was the case. I am NOT against comfish at all but if the run was weak i wonder why it was EO after EO for the drift fleet. They sure got to fish a lot this year. Again NOT a slam on them but with such a weak run it did not make sense. Also Fins and Feathers said the run was right at projection on their info line so something is not adding up.

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    They all went up the Columbia River.....

    The pre-season forecast on the Columbia was about 350,000. It looks like we will get just about twice that amount. Likely between 650K - 700K. Nice to see so many sockeye.

    Just goes to show that pre-season forecasts are full of risk and uncertainty, both on the KP and in the PNW. Fish management is about minimizing risk and uncertainty. Some years that's easier to do than others....

  5. #5

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    The lower river was pretty good the last two days for reds. Very few people and plenty of fish. The reds started early this year and seem to be still going steady late. This year was all about timing. If you timed it right, fishing was pretty good. Hit it wrong, like the masses that tried two weekends ago, and you struggled . Looking at the numbers, ADFG has done a pretty good job of getting a steady level of escapement throughout the run with the limited tools they have been provided by the board of fish. The middle of the run had some tough days with unusually low numbers, but a strong start and finish will leave us with plenty of fish on the spawning beds. This year may lower expectations down a bit which might be good for all of us and the river.

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    With a high day of 64K it was never all that good. Yes you could get a few but overall this year was a bust according to most that i talked to. in 2013 there were 5 days of 90k+ 2012 there was 5 days of 80k+ in 2011 there were 8 days of 80k+ so this years whopping 64K top day was pretty weak as runs go.

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    It is what we have to look forward to the next few years. Look back at the parent years for this year and you will see one part of reason for a lower return. The EO's for the drift fleet are like letting people kill all the Elk they want on the north slope. It was just a case of CYA. If we hit any fish in the corridor it was just luck. You will see 30k plus returns for the next week or more. Look back at 2007 and you will see the same run timing. It is just what it is.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    I was just looking at the run data for past years and it looks like this years high of 64k fish was one of the worst on record. I heard many Alaskans complaining about the poor fishing and dipnetting. Anglers on the river did not do well from most of the people i talked to. While they make the minimum numbers needed why so poor this year? The river was dead the last two weeks of July compared to years past. There were no 100k days this year.There were lots of angry people that i talked to. What up with the poor run?
    The season is not over - it is not even August yet and plenty of fish could come in August - fish of all species. Yes, dipnetting closes tonight but there are other ways to catch fish. I might also add (yes, I watch, every day) that dipping has been very steady all season - just not red hot - a combination of a steady-eddy type run without a large peak, and (the last few days) the fact that there is but a fraction of the crowds. Yes, fishing success usually increases when participation decreases - lot of fish dipped by locals the last couple of days. As for Rod fishing on the river, I have not fished this year but have heard reports both ways - those that I trust know how to (and like to) rod and reel fish have been quite satisfied. Most have not had a problem getting their limit nearly every time they went fishing. I have not experienced a season yet when there wasn't someone on this forum unhappy with their fishing success in the Kenai - even when it was red hot by all accounts.

    You cannot judge a run of fish by the largest pulse of the year - that's not how it works. In fact from a production standpoint, steady entry is probably better than hundreds of thousands at once. Sometimes they all come at once, sometimes not. This year not, and it is NO ONE's FAULT. These are living creatures with a very small mind of their own.

    You either talked to people with poor timing, poor fishing skills, or unrealistic expectations. Everyone I know who wanted to get fish or go fishing this year went away pretty satisfied. Except for the Kenai ESSN's that is - they've gotten screwed again - so far. The Kasilof section has faired a little better thanks to a BLOCKBUSTER early Kasilof run, but still did not get many days.

    Unfortunately, the dipnet fishery attracts people who have never really fished before because it is relatively easy, requires little knowledge or skill, and allows one to catch copious amounts of Sockeye for personal use in a relatively short time. Nothing about it encourages moderation, patience, or understanding the resource you are depending on. Unfortunately, those who created this fishery and continue to represent it and inform its users encourage the "more is better" approach, because their whole goal is to eliminate the commercial users.

    Probably the worst possible way to manage a fisheries resource is by the general public's satisfaction with it. They do not understand it.

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    Count me among the satisfied.... the river handed me lemons but I've been busy making lemonade all week.

    Pretty sweet....
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Default Who really cares- except us?

    In addition the 2nd run of sockeyes on the Russian are dismal also- little or no opportunity for sport fishermen there to catch a few fish to feed there families or just to enjoy the fun of catching a few fish.

    Don't ever forget that the 2nd run sockeyes are managed primarily for commercials harvest! We - sport fishermen and dip netters -only get "consideration" - whatever that means!

    Until enough people get upset enough to sway the fish allocation to include some priority for personal use and enjoyment for Alaskans we will continue to get the shaft instead of the fish.

    But I guess the commercial fishermen from Seattle have to feed their families too! Why should we take the opportunity away from them to come up for a few weeks, catch a lot of fish and make some big bucks, and then take their boats and money back to Seattle while paying little or no state taxes



    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    I was just looking at the run data for past years and it looks like this years high of 64k fish was one of the worst on record. I heard many Alaskans complaining about the poor fishing and dipnetting. Anglers on the river did not do well from most of the people i talked to. While they make the minimum numbers needed why so poor this year? The river was dead the last two weeks of July compared to years past. There were no 100k days this year.There were lots of angry people that i talked to. What up with the poor run?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Misinformation alert - most of the above posts are just not correct. First, the sport fishery use to be satisfied with 20,000 fish pass the counter and staff and the public wanted day after day of 20,000. Now with some 100,000 plus days people want to have those everyday. Not going to happen. The Kenai escapement does not come in that way. Look at the ADF&G web page for fish counts and you will see that if you go back through the years.

    Next, the goals for the in-river return have a sport fish allocation and there are only a few years when escapements where around 500,000 or less that they did not take the allocation. In fact in most years the fishery takes significantly less than they could.

    Also, the goals of 1.0 to 1.2 million are almost double the goals of just a decade or two ago. People are getting spoiled and do not want to fish they just want to have fish handed to them. Pretty sad. The Kenai River is a premier sockeye salmon fishery but I suspect that with the growing guide industry we will hear more complaints just like with the king fishery. Selling trips when sockeye are not in or telling novice Kenai River fisherman that the commercial fishery stopped them all is typical of the unethical behavior of some guides.

    The Commercial fishery is fishing because ADF&G is trying to meet the goals and it looks like they will do it for Kenai and go over for Kasilof.
    The forecast. Give me a break. The total inlet forecast was for 6 million and the run will come in around 5 million. Within 20% - pretty darn good for forecasting anything 5 or 6 years out.

    Relative to counting pinks. The lower river gets them first and they move upstream. ADF&G does use the fishwheels to separate them out from sockeye so those who post they do not know nothing about the counting operations. They do not do it until the pinks arrive on site.

    Finally, some of the same players here who post this misinformation have been on this forum for a long time. They know better so are just sowing the seeds of hate and discontent. Beware of their posts.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    Relative to counting pinks. The lower river gets them first and they move upstream. ADF&G does use the fishwheels to separate them out from sockeye so those who post they do not know nothing about the counting operations. They do not do it until the pinks arrive on site.
    Yes and when the pinks are thick they likely push the sockeye off the banks where the fish wheels are so if anything pinks are over compensated for and reds undercounted this time of year.

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    Default Not for the Russian

    Maybe true for the Kenai - but the fish count on the Russian get an accurate red count. Not many pinks in the Russian and fewer yet make it to the weir.

    And yet again this year the count in the Russian is dismal. I'm sure no one but the sport fishermen get a dang about the count in the Russian as long as the escapement is met even if it after the season is over.

    Check it out sometime.


    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Yes and when the pinks are thick they likely push the sockeye off the banks where the fish wheels are so if anything pinks are over compensated for and reds undercounted this time of year.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Maybe true for the Kenai - but the fish count on the Russian get an accurate red count. Not many pinks in the Russian and fewer yet make it to the weir.

    And yet again this year the count in the Russian is dismal. I'm sure no one but the sport fishermen get a dang about the count in the Russian as long as the escapement is met even if it after the season is over.

    Check it out sometime.
    If your river of choice has a poor return year, fish somewhere else. It's that easy.
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    You are off base and do not have a clue! Facts hurt your brain but here they are. Out of 473 drift permits 383 belong to Alaskans only 90 are from out of state, and over half of them are Alaskans that have moved out of state. If you would take the time you might not make your self look so uninformed as a nice way to put it. If you would care to get a clue on what goes on in the gillnet fishery I would love to give you some education about it. You can come down and see it first hand. Until you know what is going on stop putting crap out that you have no clue about!!!!!!!!! Feel free to PM me for when and where I will have my boat so you can be educated Have a great day!
    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    In addition the 2nd run of sockeyes on the Russian are dismal also- little or no opportunity for sport fishermen there to catch a few fish to feed there families or just to enjoy the fun of catching a few fish.

    Don't ever forget that the 2nd run sockeyes are managed primarily for commercials harvest! We - sport fishermen and dip netters -only get "consideration" - whatever that means!

    Until enough people get upset enough to sway the fish allocation to include some priority for personal use and enjoyment for Alaskans we will continue to get the shaft instead of the fish.

    But I guess the commercial fishermen from Seattle have to feed their families too! Why should we take the opportunity away from them to come up for a few weeks, catch a lot of fish and make some big bucks, and then take their boats and money back to Seattle while paying little or no state taxes

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by smithtb View Post
    Yes and when the pinks are thick they likely push the sockeye off the banks where the fish wheels are so if anything pinks are over compensated for and reds undercounted this time of year.
    You are Amazing we have talked to fish game this week because pink salmon have been in up to and past the rapids here in Sterling for some time. You can stop guesses at what is going on pinks have been on site at the sonar for sockeye for some time they are using 1 fish wheel to catch them with sockeye and separate them. call them it is being done and it has been done in the past years they freely say it is not perfect. That's what is happening on the river a sockeye guide we know from all Alaska outdoors talked with them extensively so has others because of what we are all catching and not catching. I suppose then if uou all say they don't separate and they say they do and you say pinks are not above lower river then maybe fish game has been lying and everyone fishing from Soldotna to skilak lake including me can't tell what kind of fish they catch. Just more not good information everyone is saying to make everything bad to support opinion.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Maybe true for the Kenai - but the fish count on the Russian get an accurate red count. Not many pinks in the Russian and fewer yet make it to the weir.

    And yet again this year the count in the Russian is dismal. I'm sure no one but the sport fishermen get a dang about the count in the Russian as long as the escapement is met even if it after the season is over.

    Check it out sometime.
    Right. Commercial fishermen don't care if escapement goals are made or not. And farmers don't care about planting crops. Wa wa wa.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerline View Post
    You are Amazing we have talked to fish game this week because pink salmon have been in up to and past the rapids here in Sterling for some time. You can stop guesses at what is going on pinks have been on site at the sonar for sockeye for some time they are using 1 fish wheel to catch them with sockeye and separate them. call them it is being done and it has been done in the past years they freely say it is not perfect. That's what is happening on the river a sockeye guide we know from all Alaska outdoors talked with them extensively so has others because of what we are all catching and not catching. I suppose then if uou all say they don't separate and they say they do and you say pinks are not above lower river then maybe fish game has been lying and everyone fishing from Soldotna to skilak lake including me can't tell what kind of fish they catch. Just more not good information everyone is saying to make everything bad to support opinion.
    I was at the end of funny river rd. 24 hours ago and the fishermen i talked to hadn't caught a pink yet. Plenty of reds. I wasn't surprised by that as pinks are more numerous in the lower river, and plenty of reds are passing the south beaches, the north beaches, the river mouth, and the sonar. But you are right, lots of conflicting reports.

    As for pinks at the counter - yes they are there and being apportioned. Yes, not perfectly as this is not a perfect science. But

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    Default where??

    How many of those "Alaskans" really live year-round in Alaska?

    And where do all those drift boats go during the winter? I don't see them except during the fishing season.

    I'll send you a PM this winter and we can check things out.


    Quote Originally Posted by MGH55 View Post
    You are off base and do not have a clue! Facts hurt your brain but here they are. Out of 473 drift permits 383 belong to Alaskans only 90 are from out of state, and over half of them are Alaskans that have moved out of state. If you would take the time you might not make your self look so uninformed as a nice way to put it. If you would care to get a clue on what goes on in the gillnet fishery I would love to give you some education about it. You can come down and see it first hand. Until you know what is going on stop putting crap out that you have no clue about!!!!!!!!! Feel free to PM me for when and where I will have my boat so you can be educated Have a great day!
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  20. #20
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    "as long as the escapement goal is met" - what part of that didn't you get.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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