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Thread: Court finds urban setnet ban initiative can move forward

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    Default Court finds urban setnet ban initiative can move forward

    http://www.adn.com/article/20140723/...n-move-forward

    From The Alaska Dispatch.

    The Penney initiative to ban set nets in "urban" areas may go forward.

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    Next step Supreme Court. Should be interesting.

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    Sounds like the KRSA core is spending their way to the top. God what a sad existence. You guys ever heard of golf?

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    So was looking at the AFCA website. Looks like all KRSA blood... Except for one relatively new board member.... The chair of the dipnetter's association.

    Huh. Guess you don't have to understand escapement goals or yield to 'depend' on our salmon.

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    I think this action may help the UCIDA lawsuit - the State of Alaska is charged with management of the salmon resources under the federal Mag/Stevens Act. That act has very specific criteria and I doubt that an Alaskan vote to eliminate set nets in specific areas will past federal muster. Therefore, this is going to be a long hard fought effort and lots of hard feelings and all for no reason. The ban is build on a false premise, plays on peoples prejudices against each other, and has no concern for the long term health of the resources. I am not one to define evil but in my opinion this is evil in the form of the individuals who are pushing this. It will cause unnecessary suffering and that is evil in my mind.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Yea SmithB, you might just try taking it up... it clears the mind and shuts out all other voices you might hear in your head, Just saying.
    BTW, I don't take bribes or ill gotten gains so you can take back your post on another thread of accusing me of same. I do have my own perspective and am not afraid to voice it. Just leave SCADA out of it, I don't accuse you of speaking for Setnetters even if you are one. Should I assume you are the mouthpiece of ESSN's since you are one? Back at ya buddy
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerka View Post
    I am not one to define evil but in my opinion this is evil in the form of the individuals who are pushing this. It will cause unnecessary suffering and that is evil in my mind.
    Exactly spot on.

    Anyone who associates with or supports this nonsense is about as morally bankrupt as they come.
    Trying to destroy families, wow, great "men" in that organization......
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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    Nerka help me out here, if this were to pass and get voted to pass; kachemak bay setnetters would be out, redoubt bay, kalgin island netters out, northern district netters out. What makes no sense is for hatred of one fishing group to effect other small fisheries that don't even catch one of the majestic, trophy kenai kings.

    The judge's quote on the fisheries and this initiative being no different than fly fishermen and spin fishermen, its all the same allocation, was just wrong and I think shows she likely had her own biases when deciding on this case. I think commercial lawyers need to get involved and bring some better perspective to this issue.

    If this passes, I'm not going to spend much time on the KP in July. Not willing to watch the KP become Alaska's dump for the month of July.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 33outdoorsman View Post
    Nerka help me out here, if this were to pass and get voted to pass; kachemak bay setnetters would be out, redoubt bay, kalgin island netters out, northern district netters out. What makes no sense is for hatred of one fishing group to effect other small fisheries that don't even catch one of the majestic, trophy kenai kings.

    The judge's quote on the fisheries and this initiative being no different than fly fishermen and spin fishermen, its all the same allocation, was just wrong and I think shows she likely had her own biases when deciding on this case. I think commercial lawyers need to get involved and bring some better perspective to this issue.

    If this passes, I'm not going to spend much time on the KP in July. Not willing to watch the KP become Alaska's dump for the month of July.
    I think her example shows a lack of understanding of commercial fisheries law. First, fly and spin fisherman have one license. In set vs drift vs seine the State has said they are different and require different permits with different criteria for each. In addition, the state via the Board of Fish has allocated around the state different allocations to set net fisherman vs other gear types. They are treated as a separate class. So in regulation and statue there are clear differences. Not sure how she came to the conclusion she did except out of ignorance.

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    a few facts here. Of the close to 2400 kings taken this season in UCI, 534 or so were taken by sportsfish or/and the mortality of catch and release. @ 1837 were taken by Commfish, of which 85% were taken by setnetters. Do the math, it adds up. Pure evil is letting a couple of hundred sites take 85% of the commercial take of Kings. How long has the essn's been allowed to fish??? Only a couple of periods but look at the take.? Now look what has happened. Sportsfishing is now closed and the commercials have to follow suit. A lot good it did the run or the Peninsula all together. had a lot more to post but due to a medical problem, I need to take some time off. Besides, what I had written was not very nice and decided to bite my cheek. No sense posting and than not being able to defend it. God speed folks... I got some bigger fish to fry, like my health. Tootles
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Hey Whop how long have we had ESSN's in UCI?
    Why is it now after all these years with guide boats anchored up on the spawning grounds and dippers (in years past) getting them also now It's the setnetters fault?
    I remember getting two kings in the boat in one day dipping just a few years ago. The year before that we had two in one day. And that was just our boat not to mention the hundreds of other boats our that day dipping plus the hundreds of sports boats upriver.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Yea SmithB, you might just try taking it up... it clears the mind and shuts out all other voices you might hear in your head, Just saying.
    BTW, I don't take bribes or ill gotten gains so you can take back your post on another thread of accusing me of same. I do have my own perspective and am not afraid to voice it. Just leave SCADA out of it, I don't accuse you of speaking for Setnetters even if you are one. Should I assume you are the mouthpiece of ESSN's since you are one? Back at ya buddy
    If it shuts out the voices in my head that say there is plenty of this resource to go around if we manage it right then I'll keep the voices thank you. The path you have chosen to walk with a bunch of jerks will most certainly result in less for everyone

    Leave SCADA out of it??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? You have referenced your position as the chairman of that board on this forum, and it is the first thing mentioned on your bio on the AFCA website. No doubt it's the only reason they asked you to be on their board as I don't think you have the pedigree they usually look for in board members, no offense.

    Not suggesting you take bribes, only that rubbing shoulders with those guys has probably made your life easier somehow - that's how they work. But hey, maybe you're a cheap date.

    I wish you the best with your health. Funny though... You are healthy enough to dip and post all week, and then when you sense a little heat online you're too sick to turn on your phone and reply?

    Remember last year when I accused you of a coordinated attack with Ricky-Bobbie and friends against Vince Webster, which you denied? It seems you're working closer with them you let on. I hope you're more honest than that when you report your harvest.

    As for king harvest numbers, which I haven't double checked - yes - in years like this, with a poor King run and abundant Sockeye runs, the King harvest can be higher on the commercial side - especially when most people and commercial operators on the river choose to fish for something else. Long-term, however, the inriver sport fishery harvests many more and larger Kings than the commercial fishery. Commercial harvest numbers and exploitation rates are completely sustainable, but we all know you and your buddies don't care about that - you just want them all for yourselves.

    So rest up, get better, then call your friends and let them know you're getting drug through the mud for your association with them. They'll make it worth your while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    a few facts here. Of the close to 2400 kings taken this season in UCI, 534 or so were taken by sportsfish or/and the mortality of catch and release. @ 1837 were taken by Commfish, of which 85% were taken by setnetters. Do the math, it adds up. Pure evil is letting a couple of hundred sites take 85% of the commercial take of Kings. How long has the essn's been allowed to fish??? Only a couple of periods but look at the take.? Now look what has happened. Sportsfishing is now closed and the commercials have to follow suit. A lot good it did the run or the Peninsula all together. had a lot more to post but due to a medical problem, I need to take some time off. Besides, what I had written was not very nice and decided to bite my cheek. No sense posting and than not being able to defend it. God speed folks... I got some bigger fish to fry, like my health. Tootles
    534 kings taken in the sportfishery? Is that all of the rivers in cook inlet? How did they come up with that number?
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

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    Just checked back in for just a moment. Funny how some setters are somewhat upset with me. Bycatch is the reason so figure out a way to not be just a floating death trap. will ya. Never did ask me about what I thought about compensation and or another type of fishery that setnetters might have priority, directed by the BOF, to insure some sort of continuity for the 500 or so setters, being displaced. Just because we churned butter in a butter urn does not make it economical in todays standards, compared to years past.
    I have been accused of being un Christian and selfish since my last post, by PM's. So be it. Setnetters need to evolve, not just fall back on " its because we have always did it this way". Time to move on. On another note, unless you pay dues to SCADA, don't worry about what my take personally is or what I back with SCADA. Pay some dues and have a voice, don't just gleam off the internet and yell from left field, unless of course you have some better ideas. So start your own org and go from there, don't use SCADA as a scapegoat or a stepping stone.
    I dipped one day and went home and had a medical emergency, so as to your insinuation I am avoiding you is nonsense. Not that it is any of your business but I have been placed on pain pills and don't need your drivel at the moment. Nothing but a third grade education couldn't handle the back and forth but I wish for some down time. Cry away, a lot more is in place than what you decided to post, but you know that.
    Have fun, I'm done... Doctors orders. Tootles
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    534 kings taken in the sportfishery? Is that all of the rivers in cook inlet? How did they come up with that number?
    No, he compared mortality of only Kenai River Kings over 20" to total UCI central district commercial harvest of all kings to all rivers. We know this is not an accurate or fair comparison. And he guessed low for the KR sport fish harvest by about 100 fish.

    That's Ricky's favorite move. Doesn't matter if it's true or not, so long as it sounds good and people believe it. Want to buy a bridge?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Just checked back in for just a moment. Funny how some setters are somewhat upset with me. Bycatch is the reason so figure out a way to not be just a floating death trap. will ya. Never did ask me about what I thought about compensation and or another type of fishery that setnetters might have priority, directed by the BOF, to insure some sort of continuity for the 500 or so setters, being displaced. Just because we churned butter in a butter urn does not make it economical in todays standards, compared to years past.
    I have been accused of being un Christian and selfish since my last post, by PM's. So be it. Setnetters need to evolve, not just fall back on " its because we have always did it this way". Time to move on. On another note, unless you pay dues to SCADA, don't worry about what my take personally is or what I back with SCADA. Pay some dues and have a voice, don't just gleam off the internet and yell from left field, unless of course you have some better ideas. So start your own org and go from there, don't use SCADA as a scapegoat or a stepping stone.
    I dipped one day and went home and had a medical emergency, so as to your insinuation I am avoiding you is nonsense. Not that it is any of your business but I have been placed on pain pills and don't need your drivel at the moment. Nothing but a third grade education couldn't handle the back and forth but I wish for some down time. Cry away, a lot more is in place than what you decided to post, but you know that.
    Have fun, I'm done... Doctors orders. Tootles
    "(TheWhop2000), Director

    (The Whop) has called Alaska home for nearly 4 decades. As an avid hunter and fisherman, he serves as the chair of the South Central Alaska Dipnetters Association and has been actively involved in Alaska’s fishery issues for the last 10 years. Originally from New York, (whop) works in construction on the North Slope."

    Straight from the AFCA website - name removed. You put that online, not me. Nothing left field about it. I AM a member of a fisherman's organization - one which is forced to spend most of its very limited budget fighting the lies you and your friends continue to spread about a fishery made up of primarily middle class peninsula resident families who simply want to maintain their very sustainable lifestyle.

    It doesn't matter what you think of compensation. That's not part of your initiative or your lawsuit against our state. You simply want us out of business. More is never enough.

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    Last shot, argue with fish and game... it is their numbers that I used. Tell them Ricky said so, LOL. I don't pull these numbers out of my arse, I use from the official release from sports and comfish, just released . Their numbers not mine. But I guess it's all a conspiracy, right?
    That sustainable lifestyle for roughly 500 permits , compared to tens of thousands of drifters, Sportsfishers, dipnetters and subsistence. The nets need to go from the beach. let the permit holders get first in line for another type of fishery. Hear any complaints towards the drifters in this argument? Nope.

    They don't get the large numbers of incidental catch that the setnetters do. That is the crux of the problem. The dynamics of UCI are changing. The fisheries need to change/adjust or go by the wayside. I still argue for compensation and another way for the setnetters to make a living. Moose and Goose do not have the funds to do in season DNA or the equivalent to ascertain where what fish came from and where they were caught. Doesn't matter, the fact is way too many kings were caught and now the commercial setters and sports are done. Something needs to change.
    Last edited by thewhop2000; 07-25-2014 at 19:44. Reason: just read a previous post
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Last shot, argue with fish and game... it is their numbers that I used. Tell them Ricky said so, LOL. I don't pull these numbers out of my arse, I use from the official release from sports and comfish, just released . Their numbers not mine. But I guess it's all a conspiracy, right?
    That sustainable lifestyle for roughly 500 permits , compared to tens of thousands of drifters, Sportsfishers, dipnetters and subsistence. The nets need to go from the beach. let the permit holders get first in line for another type of fishery. Hear any complaints towards the drifters in this argument? Nope.

    They don't get the large numbers of incidental catch that the setnetters do. That is the crux of the problem. The dynamics of UCI are changing. The fisheries need to change/adjust or go by the wayside. I still argue for compensation and another way for the setnetters to make a living. Moose and Goose do not have the funds to do in season DNA or the equivalent to ascertain where what fish came from and where they were caught. Doesn't matter, the fact is way too many kings were caught and now the commercial setters and sports are done. Something needs to change.
    Yes, their numbers, but you are using them in a very misleading way, very typical for a politician. What you and your crooked friends are trying to do is very selfish, it's too bad you cannot see it.
    Responsible Conservation > Political Allocation

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Last shot, argue with fish and game... it is their numbers that I used. Tell them Ricky said so, LOL. I don't pull these numbers out of my arse, I use from the official release from sports and comfish, just released . Their numbers not mine. But I guess it's all a conspiracy, right?
    That sustainable lifestyle for roughly 500 permits , compared to tens of thousands of drifters, Sportsfishers, dipnetters and subsistence. The nets need to go from the beach. let the permit holders get first in line for another type of fishery. Hear any complaints towards the drifters in this argument? Nope.

    They don't get the large numbers of incidental catch that the setnetters do. That is the crux of the problem. The dynamics of UCI are changing. The fisheries need to change/adjust or go by the wayside. I still argue for compensation and another way for the setnetters to make a living. Moose and Goose do not have the funds to do in season DNA or the equivalent to ascertain where what fish came from and where they were caught. Doesn't matter, the fact is way too many kings were caught and now the commercial setters and sports are done. Something needs to change.
    AS a cook inlet drift fisherman I emphatically state that I support the setnet fisheries as the majority of drifters do, and ballot box biology-such-- as this setnet banning initiatve- is a slippery slope. What's next- an initiative to ban guiding on the kenai river? Or how about one outlawing dipnetting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kasilofchrisn View Post
    Hey Whop how long have we had ESSN's in UCI?
    Why is it now after all these years with guide boats anchored up on the spawning grounds and dippers (in years past) getting them also now It's the setnetters fault?
    I remember getting two kings in the boat in one day dipping just a few years ago. The year before that we had two in one day. And that was just our boat not to mention the hundreds of other boats our that day dipping plus the hundreds of sports boats upriver.
    Exactly so! After a nearly a century of INTENSE commercial fishing with nets and fish trap "walls of death" the mighty Kenai king salmon returned every year with vigor. And then the sport folks discovered the kings, followed by the johnny-come-lately dips, and all of a sudden the disappearance of the kings is the set netter's fault. How utterly absurd and needless, especially since the ESSNs only fish a fraction of the time they used to.
    These people SO PISS ME OFF! A greedy bunch who want to put an Alaskan institution out of business. I want them to fail and fail hard.

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