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Thread: Barnes TTSX question

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Default Barnes TTSX question

    I have been loading the Barnes 168g TSX in the 30-06 and have great results over 55 grains of H4350. I have a box of the TTSX and want to load them up and give them a whirl. My question is has anyone gone through this before and did you have to start from scratch with your load or did the same powder and seating depth give you the same results?
    The TSX bullet is 1.318" long and the Tipped is 1.418". I have already checked and made sure magazine fit wasn't a problem. Just curious if the two shot differently.

    Another question is point of impact differences between let's say the 168g and a 220g. Would like to make up a decent load in case of a bear oppertunity. When you guys shoot different grain bullets, do you just make a mental note of the POI difference and do hold over/under or is it minimal at lets say 200yds?
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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    Another question is point of impact differences between let's say the 168g and a 220g. Would like to make up a decent load in case of a bear oppertunity. When you guys shoot different grain bullets?
    It's a good practice if changing anything in a load- primer, case, powder, or bullet...drop back to starting loads and work up.

    Regarding different bullets, I don't.... your 168gr TSX will probably penetrate as well as anything fired out of an '06....including the 220gr. Those Barnes really penetrate and hold together.

    I'm kind of a one load sort of guy... switching stuff around in the field usually doesn't work out too well. My $.02
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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Appreciate that Hodgeman, I am usually a one round guy too but was thinking about experimenting. If the general consenses is that the 168g will do what it needs to do then I will stick to it. I have had great results with it with Caribou and have never had a caribou complain. I tend to stick to a little lighter bullet for velocity, Something I feel kills. after doing some research I came up with this:
    168g TSX 200yd 2422 fps 2187 E ftlbs
    220 corlok 200yd 1870 fps 1708 E ftlbs

    Seems that the 168 out performs the 220 hands down @ 200yds

    At 100yds, something you might need for bear, lets say, the story is the same:

    168g 2610 v 2541 E
    220 2125 v 2205 E

    This supports my theory on Velocity kills. Again Hodgeman, thanks for getting me thinking.
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    I have used 168 TSX out of a RUM and then switched to TTSX. The point of impact was close and the powder charge and primers were the same, but I had to fiddle with the seating depth for the TTSX to get them to group good. The ogive is different with the two bullets. If you are having trouble seating the TTSX close enough to the lands, the TSX might give you a little more reach and work better. The difference in BC between the TSX and TTSX will not make a hoot of difference to 400 yards.

    I would not be as worried about bullet weight as much as bullet construction. When comparing a 220 corelok to a 168 TSX it is like comparing apples to airplanes. Compare the 168 TSX to the 200 TSX flat base and see how your numbers do. The 220 corelok will be a grenade and loose all sorts of mass rendering it less than optimal in a DLP situation. The Barnes bullets are perfect for hunting and DLP as they stay together and penetrate as good of not better than any hunting bullet there is. Only thing that will penetrate better is a solid.

    If you shoot a P.O.'ed grizzly in the front section with a TSX at very close range, you will have a good chance of hitting some bone and changing the channel to give you a chance at a follow up shot. I would not be confident with the corelok. I have seen them come completely apart on pigs at DLP ranges, and would not trust them on a bear.

    If you really want to have a round for close range grizzly work, then load some solids for packing the rifle around after a kill. Maybe look at the Cutting Edge Raptor bullet, they look cool. You may look a the 220g partition. They stay together real well too and have a ton of load data out there.

    Otherwise, kill with authority using the 168 (t)tsx.

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    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure the ogives are the same for the 168 tsx and the 168 ttsx but will have to look at the barnes manual. I have always been told the only difference between the ttsx and tsx was the plastic tip. Since i am at work i will not be able to check til tonight. There is a difference betweem the 165 and 168 though for sure.
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    As the others say....."stick with one quality bullet"......that Barnes will penetrate very well.

    The other consideration for loading the tipped version is length of magazine box.

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shphtr View Post
    I am pretty sure the ogives are the same for the 168 tsx and the 168 ttsx but will have to look at the barnes manual. I have always been told the only difference between the ttsx and tsx was the plastic tip. Since i am at work i will not be able to check til tonight. There is a difference betweem the 165 and 168 though for sure.
    They both are the same Ogive. Could be some of the older TSX had a different Ogive since they did change them at one point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    They both are the same Ogive. Could be some of the older TSX had a different Ogive since they did change them at one point.
    Can't speak directly to the .30's, but have been using .338's since the original X, through the blue coated X, to the current version TSX, and can report the ogives have changed many times as things have evolved. Seems like Barnes is always tweeking and improving, and I've found it pays to double check any time I'm not working from the same lot number.
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    I have discussed with the Barnes' technicians why they have both a 165 and a 168 gr. 30 cal. They explained that the ogive for the 168 is based on extensive testing by the army, and tho it did not produce the highest BC it was shown to be a very accurate configuration, which based on my experience has certainly been the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shphtr View Post
    I have discussed with the Barnes' technicians why they have both a 165 and a 168 gr. 30 cal. They explained that the ogive for the 168 is based on extensive testing by the army, and tho it did not produce the highest BC it was shown to be a very accurate configuration, which based on my experience has certainly been the case.
    Interesting . . . Thanks for sharing.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    From the Barnes web page:Is the 168-grain .30-caliber TSX the same as the 165-grain TSX? Is it really a match-grade hunting bullet?
    These bullets have different ogive geometries. The 165-grain TSX incorporates a shorter tangent ogive in the nose profile. Itís designed for cartridges with short magazines such as the .300 WSM and .300 Win Mag. The 168-grain TSX BT has a secant ogive which lengthens the nose profile and has shown superb accuracy downrange. It offers the best of both worlds because itís also a premium hunting bullet offering exceptional terminal performance. It is best suited for cartridges such as the .308 Winchester, .30-06 and .300 Weatherby.


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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    From the Barnes web page:Is the 168-grain .30-caliber TSX the same as the 165-grain TSX? Is it really a match-grade hunting bullet?
    These bullets have different ogive geometries. The 165-grain TSX incorporates a shorter tangent ogive in the nose profile. Itís designed for cartridges with short magazines such as the .300 WSM and .300 Win Mag. The 168-grain TSX BT has a secant ogive which lengthens the nose profile and has shown superb accuracy downrange. It offers the best of both worlds because itís also a premium hunting bullet offering exceptional terminal performance. It is best suited for cartridges such as the .308 Winchester, .30-06 and .300 Weatherby.


    Barnes does a good job with there FAQ. I sent them an Email the other day and they answered my questions fast too. Gotta love good customer service
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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Loaded up some 168 grain TTSX rounds for the 30-06. Winchester cases, WLR primers, 59 grains H 4350 with the bullet seated to give COAL, measured with a Hornady bullet comparator to 2.610. The key is to measure and seat every round to achieve the exact same COAL. What a pain. I need to look at some Redding dies I think.

    These grouped less then 3/4" at 100yds @ a smokin 3040fps. I had a hard time getting a standard deviation
    since my buddy was shooting his .220 Swift next to me and it would set the chrony off.

    Great load except it gets the barrel pretty hot in a hurry. I can get three shots before the barrel gets too hot to maintain the group. It actually will have a flyer after the first three rounds then group again.

    The rifle is a Tikka T3 super light so I was suprised with the velocity but the thin barrel explains the heating issue. It's a hunting rifle so I am not as concerned with the three shot limitation. Even after it consistently groups to the left 2"'s. Now to ask a caribou what he thinks of the new load.
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    Supporting Member Hoyt-Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    The rifle is a Tikka T3 super light so I was suprised with the velocity
    Just curious. What does being a Tikka T3 have anything to do with velocity achievement with bullets?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoyt-Hunter View Post
    Just curious. What does being a Tikka T3 have anything to do with velocity achievement with bullets?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    After a look at the Tikka web page the lighter t3 the shorter the barrel. From 20 to 24 3/8 inches.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jkb View Post
    After a look at the Tikka web page the lighter t3 the shorter the barrel. From 20 to 24 3/8 inches.
    Exactly, the shorter the barrel, the lower the velocities that are achieved. If you look at the details in most load sheets it will tell you the barrel length on the test rifle. The majority are in the 24"-26" range. Also, the heat issue I have is part velocity and hot load and part thin light barrel. A thick bull barrel would handle the heat better if I was needing to make a bunch of shots, like bench rest competitions. Since this rifle is a pack rifle I will enjoy its lightness and manage the heat with accurate shooting and minimal shots.
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    You should be ok with the load, just get the seating depth right. A call to Barnes is easy and I have always found them to be helpful. I plan on loading that 168 grain TTSX bullet up for my 1958 era Pre-64 Mod. 70 Featherweight 30-06. I usually stick to one load with a rifle, makes life simpler at the loading bench.

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    Hello,
    I live in Anchorage and am on the Barnes Advisory Committee. I've found the Barnes reload manual very watered down, and like the Speer #, 9 and especially #10. Typically, I find what combo of bullet / powder mix works best (group then velocity)in a given rifle and that is what everything is shot with from that rifle....get another caliber rifle if you want a lighter or heavier rifle or experiment and find a best load for your application.

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    Hoyt-Hunter - It's an established fact that there are "fast" barrels and "slow" barrels - Sako and Tikka barrels are notorious for having smooth finishes which "can" enhance velocity "achievement" - In the superlight line the magnums are 24 3/8" long and the standards are 22 3/8" long and I have found that they produce results so similar to the "Lites" as to not make much or any differences but are just enough lighter in weight, due to the barrel fluting, to make a very nice lightweight hunting rifle - I have worked with 5 so far and all have produced very acceptable results

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    I'm loading 168 TTSXs in my 30-06 with 55.5 grains of H4350. Barnes recommends you use the TSX load data for the TTSXs so there shouldn't be a problem switching bullets. I have three different tools I can use to determine the location of the rifle's lands. Then I seat the bullets 50 thousandths off the lands. (In all my rifles, the TTSXs shot best at that seating depth)

    I use competition style micrometer adjustable bullet seaters to make seating depth adjustments easier. I also use Davidson's seating depth checkers mounted to my dial calipers to assure consistent measurements from the base of the cartridge case to the bullet's ogive. I also check the loaded rounds for excessive runout and correct that if necessary. There's a lot of attention to detail required for the hunting ammo I load but I enjoy doing it.

    Sinclair International has got a lot of money out of me over the years for the purchase of precision shooting equipment. They've got just about everything a reloader could want.

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