Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 28

Thread: UHMW on Boat Bottom. How Applied????

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    87

    Talking UHMW on Boat Bottom. How Applied????

    Anyone out there who has done or experience with this? I need to get this on my Sportjon before I completely destroy my bottom. I go where I shouldn't all the time. This will help the contact points that I'm opening up all the time. Right where the transom meets the bottom I'll drag over a rock and it will catch the transom and open up. I see pictures of rivets or some other kind of fastner all up and down the UHMW on the boat that I have seen. Compeaus here in FBKS talks about a vacuum bag process with some sort of adhesive and when I last talked to them they still didn't have it 100% ready to go. Plus they run it down the middle just to the tunnel hull. Well at the transom where I make contact it's on both sides of the tunnel hull. I need a wider coverage on both sides of the tunnel hull. I can get the UHMW I just haven't gotten anyone who wants to give up any trade secrets. Imagine that?

    Thanks,

    GS

  2. #2
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    5,594

    Default

    The only means I'd trust, especially for your application, would be mechanical fasteners, ie nuts and bolts.

    I have strips of UHMW on the bottom my boat, and they bedded in 5200 and screwed in place. One overlap that wasn't screwed at the end was quite easy to peel away from the 5200. I've also found epoxy won't stick to it. Yes you can scuff it up by sanding, and clean it well and good with acetone, but I don't know of any adhesive that will stay stuck long term, especially if forces will be appied that will try and peal it off whatever it is glued to.

  3. #3
    Member AK NIMROD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    SOLDOTNA, AK
    Posts
    949

    Default

    my 13 footer has lots of bolts with nyloc nuts and holes in hull are also threaded, tapered heads countersunk into 1/2" & 5/8" uhmw. 1/2 over all of bottom and 5/8 " X 13" strip over keel ( so 1-1/8 thick down keel)
    my hull is 3/8 in center and 1/4 on sides of bottom.
    RETIRED U.S.A.F. CAPT.; LIFETIME MEMBER NRA; LIFETIME MEMBER ALASKA BOWHUNTER ASSOC.
    MASTER BOWHUNTER EDUCATION INSTRUCTOR; MEMBER UNITED BLOOD TRACKERS; POPE & YOUNG MEASURER

  4. #4
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,008

    Default

    Checkout www.rockproofboats.com for more info

    also the new Jetcraft Xtreme Duty comes with "screwed & glued" 1/2" UHMW bottom

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    87

    Default

    1/2 thick is pretty beefy. I don't think this is being done locally (FBKS) yet unless Compeaus got it going.

    When using a bolt and nut do you use a silicone with the bolt trying to seal each hole that you make. I don't like putting holes in boats. How bad does your boat leak Nimrod? I have an early production date Sportjon and I'm 1/8 bottom all the way. I was thinking 1/4 UHMW, 3/8 max but 1/2 sounds a touch too much.

    Also one concern is that my bottom being in the shape it's in isn't flat. I have impact dents. Should I be concerned about trying to have a perfect flat surface for the UHMW to be installed on? Once metal takes a shape it's never the same again. I'm battered pretty good.

    Thanks for the info keep it coming,

    GS

  6. #6
    Member steelguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wrangell/NJ
    Posts
    216

    Default vacuum application

    I found this interesting, might want to check it out.
    http://www.crownplastics.com/

  7. #7
    Member AK NIMROD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    SOLDOTNA, AK
    Posts
    949

    Default

    Glaciershaker- had the boat 5 years and does not leak. i think the maker of my boat used something on nut side but i do not recall for sure. 3M 5200 would be good stuff for that. my boat has "bulletproof " bottom so to say.....1400# very heavy for 13 footer. i have really slammed a few rocks with no problem. friend of mine that has sportjon did alot more damage to his boat in one month than i have in 5 seasons.
    RETIRED U.S.A.F. CAPT.; LIFETIME MEMBER NRA; LIFETIME MEMBER ALASKA BOWHUNTER ASSOC.
    MASTER BOWHUNTER EDUCATION INSTRUCTOR; MEMBER UNITED BLOOD TRACKERS; POPE & YOUNG MEASURER

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    87

    Default

    I remember as a kid we replace pop rivits on an old Monarch and we siliconed each rivit. I don't remember how it turn out I just remember the process. I believe the damage to your buddies boat. There is much force when colliding with a rock that doesn't move in a 1,400lb or much more boat. Even just on step. I ride upper Salcha around 100+ and untill I learned the river it was harsh. Now I got it down where I don't hit a rock... Sometimes.

  9. #9
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    5,594

    Default

    As mentioned, 3m 5200 is preferable to silicone. It is a bit pricey, and a cheaper alternative is PL roof sealer you can get at home depot for something like $4 a tube. It's a polyurethane sealer.

    In general you don't want silicone below the waterline, and should go with a polyurethane.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks Alaska
    Posts
    68

    Default Jetcraft Extreme Duty

    The Jetcraft Extreme Duty at the Boatshop has a 3/8"
    hardened 6061 grade aluminum delta keel with a 1/4"
    bottom also 6061 grade. The UMHW is 1" on the delta
    keel and 1/2" on the rest of the bottom. The hardware
    is 1/4" SS. It is bolted thru the hull. The holes are
    threaded with rubber backed washers and nylocs for good
    measure. A sheet of UMHW can expand and contract up
    to an inch between 60 and a 100 degrees, so eventualy
    it would pull an adhesive loose. The Jetcrafts are only bolted.
    They have used this method on their race boats for years
    and have taken 14 out of the last 15 world championships.
    It is by far the toughest boat I've seen.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    87

    Default

    Is the boatshop doing any of this or it's on before the boat leaves the manufactorer? That's good info. Craig Compeau was telling me about vacuum bagging theirs but I know older airboats had uhmw with mechanical fastners. That is one heck of a bottom on that boat.

    GS

  12. #12
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    730

    Default UHMW on Boat Bottom

    Bit of overlap between this thread and a thread on the canoeing forum.

    Sid started a thread about putting aluminum runners on the bottom of 19' grumman freighters...includes pictures (I'm not sure how to copy and paste them here)... his idea is to protect the bottom from predatory rocks

    I've been thinking of attaching UHMW strips instead...for sliding over under-water logs and rocks, as much as armour. Check the pictures over on that thread....
    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=13219

    What do you think? Would the UHMW strips protect the bottom as well?

    (There's a natural overlap between the Canoeing and Power Boating forums for those of us that use freighter canoes with significant power, rather than paddles. I particularly like log jammed rivers that are seldom travelled for my fun.)

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    FAI
    Posts
    2,294

    Default

    Sorry friend, you bought a cheap boat and now you are going to pay extra to continue using it. Compeaus is known for getting boats into the water any way the can. The Phantom hulls are lighter (just listen to Craig's adds) than the competitors. Just guess how? Less metal. No if and or buts about it. For light weight hulls, the Alweld beats Phantom any way you look at it. For the Sport Jon class boat, the Jetcraft hull is so far superior it is really not in the same class.
    Run brother run when Craig says they are looking at a system to apply UHMW to aluminum via vacuum or adhesive. They are dissimilar in virtually all aspects. Therefore they expand and contract at different rates. There is no known process or chemical to do what Craig says he is trying. And he has been trying for a long time without success. Poly HI Solidur will be happy to send you information on UHMW. They make the stuff.
    Airboaters have been successful for years using the hard attach method. Most good jobs result in boats that do not leak.
    I suggest you pull the engine, turn the boat over, and replace the last 4' of bottom with 1/4" aluminum. Your boat is light weight, and you should be able to hit pretty hard and bounce over. If you do go with UHMW, absolutely use UV resistant. I does not matter that it is on the bottom of the boat, any sun and UV light that gets to it will cause failure. I promise. I learned the hard way with a bunch of plastic I bought for sleds. Or, on the other hand, I have some UHMW for sale cheap.
    Am I Craig bashing? Let's just say the service departement is good, but I have listened to enough of Craig's "stories" that I am leery. Good luck

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    87

    Default

    That's a good post I will use UV resistant UHMW for sure. I'm putting it on myself I was just gathering all the info I can.

    I love my boat. I wouldn't buy anything else for type or running I do. I've had the boat 5 years and never hit bottom till I started running about 95-110 miles up the Salcha. I love it up there so I'm going to continue running it. Like I said before now I got the river down I run without any problem but still would like the bottom because I want to go even further and tackle other new creeks.

    I talked to Craig about the UHMW he's doesn't try to sell me a boat. I bought mine in Idaho. Craig wants too much for the. They are way overpriced but people still by them like hotcakes.

    I'm sure you been in a Sportjon they flat out perform. I put it against my brothers 21' Woolridge and it flat out smokes it. He's been trying to sell it ever since to get into a jon. I haven't had one boat owner in my boat who wasn't impressed with it. The price tag keeps them away. I love that it's light you get hung up and two guys can push it off. That Woolridge doesn't come off easy with two guys. Most of my running is with wife and two young kids so I know if I get hung up I can get it off. I still run aggressive with them also.

    I didn't know there was an Alweld with a tunnel hull set up with a sportjet. I'll have to check that out. A friend of mine put a sportjet in his Alweld with tunnel work done. He likes it. As far as the Jetcraft it has one hell of a bottom on it. I didn't like the performance when I drove it compared to my jon. I thought the jon carved much better in the tight turns. But that's just me. If I rode the Jetcraft and then a jon I might be the other way around. Also I just don't like that extra weight the Jetcraft has. I wouldn't want to get stuck with my family unless I prepared for it. Now that bottom is just beefy then with 1/2 more of UHMW hell you can run snake river in that.

    For me I need more then one boat really. One for the Tanana and Homer/Valdez and one for clearwaters. It's just like the snowmobiles. One for mountains one for trails. Then a few more just because they are a blast.

    GS

  15. #15
    Member trbndoc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    13

    Default

    Well said shaker, it seems like no matter how many toys/(tools) we have; theirs always another one that does the job better in certain situations. When you start putting your boat together, give us a thread showing progress I would be real interested to learn through your process.

    Keep the rubber side down!

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    87

    Default

    I do need more then one boat. Don't get me wrong it's not the answer for everything but it is for 80% of what I like. The other 20% is once a year to Homer, Valdez and Chitna. I'd run the jon in Chitna if I could put in where I wanted which is Hayley creek I believe. It's pretty flat water just running fast. It works in Homer and Valdez but to "out" I didn't like it. Once I traveled 12 out of Valdez in beautiful weather then just like that it got rough. Coming back I broke all 3 windows from the boat flexing and hitting so hard. Flat bottoms and waves don't mix. But I shouldn't have been there. Now Homer I'm good. I just go off the spit and I'm fine only the local charters will drive about 20' from me when I'm fishing and just knock me about from their wake. They are just jerks the last two times I've been down there. I don't know why. They have the entire ocean to themselves and all the room in the world and they come by like I have naked women on the boat. I wave them off "like get out of here" and they just stare. I swear I could see the whites of their eyes. I'm a riverboat, I don't have high sides. You could swamp me. You swamp me, I have my wife and two kids with me, I'll find you. Why do you do that?

    Sorry to vent.

    GS

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    24

    Talking

    Don't believe everything the AK RIVER RAT has to say about the PhantomSportJon, it is just one man's opinion who has never owned a PhantomSportJon. He spends a great deal of time on more than one forum trashing Craig Compeau over and over again. Not real sure what axe his has to grind, but he knows nothing about the PhantomSportJon or how it performs.

    The bottom line is that Compeau's has been in the riverboat business in Fairbanks for over 40 years and they certainly know a little something about Alaska river boats. They were the first to build an inboard tunnel jet boat way back in 1998. They have been in constant trial and error development for the past nine years. The Jetcraft XS is just a poor copy of the original that weighs about 800lbs more with the same 200hp engine.

    Read the real story from Tom Pettit, of Pacific Power Sports in FBX, who sold his Extreme Shallow to buy a SportJon because of the poor handling characteristics and performance: http://phantomjetboat.com/testimonial-070306.htm.

    Or check out a testimonial from Bruce Cain from Cordova, who has run the Copper and Chitna rivers for the past 30 years: http://phantomjetboat.com/testimonial-052106.htm.

    If the AK River Rat thinks a XS can out perform the Phantom, why doesn't he just go retrieve the Compeau's sign to prove it and collect the reward? I'll tell you why. The XS can't make it up the river that far.

    If you are looking to buy an inboard tunnel jet with a UHMW bottom, just go for a test ride in both boats before you make up your mind, rather than taking advise from someone that has never owned a SportJon. I did and there is no comparsion between the two boats.

    The only thing I agree with is that they are over priced, but that has to do with supply and demand and all the extras that are available on the SportJon that are not available on the XS......

    There are always two sides to the story.

  18. #18

    Default

    http://www.southernairboat.com/phpBB...opic.php?t=349

    Below is a copy and paste from the above forum. I couldn't get the link to work.

    Two of us installed polymer on a 13'x7' Airgator, bottom and sides, an early 70's model. I took us 13 hours (2days 8&5hrs) to finish the job. Talk to a few people that have done it before you do the installation and you will get their ideas and their tricks of installation. It is always easier to install polymer when it is hot and sunny and polymer conforms better after it has been sitting in the Sun. Install the 3 screws in the lip first (see below), and then let it sit in the Sun until it becomes easier to work with. This isn't necessary, but it helps. It was a pointer I received after my installation. A heat gun also works for conforming the sheet.
    We used three drills, one with the countersink bit (a 12 Volt Dewalt cordless drill with two good batteries and one always recharging)(Classic sells the bit with an adjustable depth collar), one 7/32"?(ask Classic what size) pilot hole drill bit(we used a 3/8" air drill),and one (1/2" air drill) with the screwdriver bit for the 1/4" machine screws. You need the moderate constant power of a 1/2" drill to drive the machine screw down below the highest surface of the countersunk polymer and into the aluminum. START SLOWLY and increase speed moderately until the screw bottoms out. The 1/4" stainless machine screw is threading into the 7/32" hole in the bottom. It's better to use a least one cordless and you can also use electric instead of air tools (air tools are lighter and easier to use if available). The least amount of power lines the better because when you get the hang of it, tangled cords slow you down. Two cords aren't too bad but three get tangled too easily.
    Mark the AFT CENTER OF THE STERN LIP OF THE BOAT (this is your starting point), and MARK THE CENTER OF THE POLYMER ON THE STERN SIDE AND THE BOW SIDE. Square the polymer sheet to the stern lip of the boat. DRILL THE POLYMER AND LIP OF THE BOTTOM OF THE BOAT, COUNTERSINK POLYMER AND SCREW IN A MACHINE SCREW. Mark the polymer with a Sharpie marking pen 1 1/2" on either side of your first screw, the center screw(The center screw was a starting point). Don't use the center screw to make a row forward . Use the two outer screws to start your rows.). Install two more machine screws. Now you have 3 screws in the lip of your bottom. Now you will want to make a couple of measuring guages. I used trim pieces from the polymer approximately 2" x 3' & 2"x10'. Mark the short piece every 3" for the edges of the sheet and the long one every 6" for the inside measurements of the sheet. Those two outer screws are 3" apart and from now on you measure and mark every 3" on both sides on each screw.The measurements on either side of the center screw will be 1 1/2",(then add 3" each measurement out) 4 1/2", 7 1/12", 10 1/2", 13 1/2", 16 1/2", 19 1/2", 22 1/2", 25 1/2" 28 1/2", 31 1/2", 34 1/2", 40 1/2" and so on until you come to the third to last row, then you split the difference between the third to last row and the outer row to make the second to last row of screws. These measurements are for marking your drilling pattern. We spaced the screws in the center of the sheet 6" apart. You can now start marking your drilling pattern fore and aft by starting with the center mark at the bow, and using the same process of measuring from side to side. Now that you have both of the sheet ends marked, the fore and aft lines can be drawn and the drilling marks marked. We didn't mark all the drilling point grids at one time, We just marked one or two rows at a time so as not to smudge the marker and have to do double work.
    IMPORTANT !!!! Always work from the center of the sheet (boat) going out towards the outside of the boat. Just start with your first 3 screws in the lip (don't use the center screw to make a row), finish those 2 rows and install a screw in the lip when you begin your next row. When you work this way the sheet is conforming flat to the bottom of the boat and you won't create highs and lows in the sheet. Trim the sheet as needed to conform to the bottom the way you want it to finish out,(need a carpenters plumb, skill saw and a 2x4 to put between the boat and polymer),this can be done towards the end or in the beginning and make allowances if you plan on installing side sheets. We also staggered the bolts from row to row. When you start a row, measure one row 3" from the lip screw and the next row measure 6" from the lip screw. If done this way you will have a closer pattern of machine screws and a tighter fit.

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    87

    Default

    Great post. I followed the SouthernAirboat link and found a company that bonds the uhmw. I thought I was on to something new and then I seen the picture of the sportjon in it's examples of what they can do. I think this is the guy working with Compeau. I'd love to have that on my boat. It's a pretty slick looking set up with that bottom glued on.

    GS

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ALASKAN KODA View Post
    Don't believe everything the AK RIVER RAT has to say about the PhantomSportJon, it is just one man's opinion who has never owned a PhantomSportJon. He spends a great deal of time on more than one forum trashing Craig Compeau over and over again. Not real sure what axe his has to grind, but he knows nothing about the PhantomSportJon or how it performs.

    The bottom line is that Compeau's has been in the riverboat business in Fairbanks for over 40 years and they certainly know a little something about Alaska river boats. They were the first to build an inboard tunnel jet boat way back in 1998. They have been in constant trial and error development for the past nine years. The Jetcraft XS is just a poor copy of the original that weighs about 800lbs more with the same 200hp engine.

    Read the real story from Tom Pettit, of Pacific Power Sports in FBX, who sold his Extreme Shallow to buy a SportJon because of the poor handling characteristics and performance: http://phantomjetboat.com/testimonial-070306.htm.

    Or check out a testimonial from Bruce Cain from Cordova, who has run the Copper and Chitna rivers for the past 30 years: http://phantomjetboat.com/testimonial-052106.htm.

    If the AK River Rat thinks a XS can out perform the Phantom, why doesn't he just go retrieve the Compeau's sign to prove it and collect the reward? I'll tell you why. The XS can't make it up the river that far.

    If you are looking to buy an inboard tunnel jet with a UHMW bottom, just go for a test ride in both boats before you make up your mind, rather than taking advise from someone that has never owned a SportJon. I did and there is no comparsion between the two boats.

    The only thing I agree with is that they are over priced, but that has to do with supply and demand and all the extras that are available on the SportJon that are not available on the XS......

    There are always two sides to the story.
    let me guess, you have never owned an XS?

    as far as the sign, water level has a lot to do with it.

    I've never owned either, but seems like you're being just as jugmental as AK RIVER RAT
    "When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
    Henry Ford

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •