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Thread: Keeping snagged reds????

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    Default Keeping snagged reds????

    I know I've brought this up before, but it's been a while, and in the spirit of "That Guy" complaints, here it is again. Regarding keeping snagged fish, is anybody of the same opinion as me that we ought to be able to keep any fish, regardless of where it is hooked? I feel that it alleviates two problems. First, it gets knuckleheads off of the river quickly. I can't imagine an argument against that. Second, I'm pretty sure it would result in fewer molested fish, and better chances at spawning. Fish n Phys, FishGod, Hippien may be able to speak to the latter, but I'm all for it. I don't fish for them much, and I don't keep snaggers, BUT I'M ALL FOR IT. Thoughts? Any chance this law could ever change?
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanebrent View Post
    I know I've brought this up before, but it's been a while, and in the spirit of "That Guy" complaints, here it is again. Regarding keeping snagged fish, is anybody of the same opinion as me that we ought to be able to keep any fish, regardless of where it is hooked? I feel that it alleviates two problems. First, it gets knuckleheads off of the river quickly. I can't imagine an argument against that. Second, I'm pretty sure it would result in fewer molested fish, and better chances at spawning. Fish n Phys, FishGod, Hippien may be able to speak to the latter, but I'm all for it. I don't fish for them much, and I don't keep snaggers, BUT I'M ALL FOR IT. Thoughts? Any chance this law could ever change?
    I'm with you on this one, the reds are a meat fishery so let folks get there meat and get out.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanebrent View Post
    I know I've brought this up before, but it's been a while, and in the spirit of "That Guy" complaints, here it is again. Regarding keeping snagged fish, is anybody of the same opinion as me that we ought to be able to keep any fish, regardless of where it is hooked? I feel that it alleviates two problems. First, it gets knuckleheads off of the river quickly. I can't imagine an argument against that. Second, I'm pretty sure it would result in fewer molested fish, and better chances at spawning. Fish n Phys, FishGod, Hippien may be able to speak to the latter, but I'm all for it. I don't fish for them much, and I don't keep snaggers, BUT I'M ALL FOR IT. Thoughts? Any chance this law could ever change?
    Sure! If snagging was legal, we could ALL go down, rip a few fish out of the water and get off the river quickly. I can't imagine why anyone would be opposed to that. Next, we should look into eliminating that silly bag limit...
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    The problem is that in years of lower/average runs, it would dramatically increase the overall harvest. Whereas now the average fisherman in an average year might catch 1-2 salmon, with legalized snagging it would be an almost certain limit for all fishermen. The total harvest would go up, and I'd wager that the overall number of wounded fish would be the same if not higher, as folks would be intentionally snagging them and snagged fish are more likely to break off before being landed.

    Count me as one against such a change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    The problem is that in years of lower/average runs, it would dramatically increase the overall harvest. Whereas now the average fisherman in an average year might catch 1-2 salmon, with legalized snagging it would be an almost certain limit for all fishermen. The total harvest would go up, and I'd wager that the overall number of wounded fish would be the same if not higher, as folks would be intentionally snagging them and snagged fish are more likely to break off before being landed.

    Count me as one against such a change.
    Interesting points Brian, certainly a few I didn't think about.

    I'd sure like to see a no fishing after a limit is retained rule, to help curb the number of molested fish.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Count me as one against such a change.
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    While I don't feel this should become an all out snag hook allowed fishery I do see merit in the idea.
    Using the same gear anglers use now. Get in get your fish and get out. No snagging 20+ to get your 3 legal (or close enough with some pwople) reds.
    The bag limits are fine. Watching people snag fish after fish and letting them go or kicking them back into the water after such an ordeal isn't sporting to me. And it isn't right to do that to the fish.
    I have caught fish with multiple hooks and lures in their backs and i'm not convinced fish treated to that actually have the energy to spawn.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lanebrent View Post
    I know I've brought this up before, but it's been a while, and in the spirit of "That Guy" complaints, here it is again. Regarding keeping snagged fish, is anybody of the same opinion as me that we ought to be able to keep any fish, regardless of where it is hooked? I feel that it alleviates two problems. First, it gets knuckleheads off of the river quickly. I can't imagine an argument against that. Second, I'm pretty sure it would result in fewer molested fish, and better chances at spawning. Fish n Phys, FishGod, Hippien may be able to speak to the latter, but I'm all for it. I don't fish for them much, and I don't keep snaggers, BUT I'M ALL FOR IT. Thoughts? Any chance this law could ever change?

    In theory, it sure does sound like a great idea. It would alleviate the masses of asses in certain combat fisheries, and everyone would have a better chance at bringing home some meat.

    But.

    I have to agree with Brian (ARGH!!!)

    There are some great, saltwater, terminal fisheries out there, the Lagoon in Homer, and the beaches of Seward, most prominent among them that offer just that. The combat zone at the Russian/Kenai is scary enough with That Guy and his Buddies, I shudder to imagine Those Guys extrapolated out to a dizzying number.
    Having grown up (okay, gotten older, as growing up may never happen) in Seward I can speak firsthand to how effective snagging is, and if done right (read HEAVY steel leader) with a stout rod and big line the loss can be minimal. But, in fisheries that need to meet escapement, I just cannot see how this would be a responsible management tool. Heck, even during the peak of the sockeye runs when it seems impossible to NOT catch fish, you still see folks walking out with empty stringers, which means there is a limit of fish that will reach the spawning grounds.

    I totally hear your point Lane, and I don't mean to invalidate it, because it is based on a sense of responsibility, I just can't see how it would benefit the fishery. It would benefit the fishermen, to be sure, but that isn't the goal here.
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    Relaxed methods and means could be implemented along with increased bag and possession limits once escapement is certain. I also like the idea of no catch and release salmon fishing once a limit is taken.

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    Reds aren't the only fish swimming in the rivers... What about the dollies, silvers, rainbows, whitefish and kings that will get mortally hooked when you open the river to snagging. You can't say you could open the river to keeping snagged fish and then not expect people to intentialy do it

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    I won't wet a line for reds if it becomes legal. Period. It's naive to think guys are going to get their limits and leave the water. They don't do that now, so why would they switch with snagging? If they legalized it on local waters, I'd buy a gillnet and set it as close to the rivermouth as legal, and the heck with the snaggers.

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    I saw and heard the horror stories of what happened to the rivers in the Great Lakes when snagging was legal in both MI and NY. No way would I support it here. Now they allowed the full on M80's, Michigan Spiders-weighted snag hooks, whatever you want to call them. But a guy ripping on a fly with 1oz of lead in front if it has a lot of momentum when it comes flyingout of the water, really want to be standing next to "That Guy", how about your kid standing there next to him....... Because if you're allowed to keep snagged reds, peole aren't going to floss them, they're going to be ripping them, all on full out snagging. The destruction it had on the steelies and browns that were in the rivers as they couldn't keep them, everyday yo'd see more of them, floating down, rolling along, looking like they lost a knife fight. Want to see all the rainbows, kings, silvers, and whatever else there is in the same condition? Not saying that those fish don't get caught up in the mayhem now, but in much less severity. It's combat fishing, and in combat, there is always a few casualties, but what you're talking about is full on war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abel View Post
    I saw and heard the horror stories of what happened to the rivers in the Great Lakes when snagging was legal in both MI and NY. No way would I support it here. Now they allowed the full on M80's, Michigan Spiders-weighted snag hooks, whatever you want to call them. But a guy ripping on a fly with 1oz of lead in front if it has a lot of momentum when it comes flyingout of the water, really want to be standing next to "That Guy", how about your kid standing there next to him....... Because if you're allowed to keep snagged reds, peole aren't going to floss them, they're going to be ripping them, all on full out snagging. The destruction it had on the steelies and browns that were in the rivers as they couldn't keep them, everyday yo'd see more of them, floating down, rolling along, looking like they lost a knife fight. Want to see all the rainbows, kings, silvers, and whatever else there is in the same condition? Not saying that those fish don't get caught up in the mayhem now, but in much less severity. It's combat fishing, and in combat, there is always a few casualties, but what you're talking about is full on war.
    Very well said. I think one of the biggest things some are overlooking and it was touched on by brian. F&G expects lets say on a normal run for most people to walk away with lets say 2 fish of the 3 every day they fish. Maybe on not so prominent runs 1 of the 3. Meaning that its hard to limit. They do this because the amount of people fishing with everyone catching thier limit is too much. So they need to make it just hard enough to let salmon swim by enough hooks to meet escapement. Im sure they have the same algorithms for how many fish get eaten by bears in certain rivers.
    Do i think you should keep them.. yes. Would be nice if we could say keep the same hook regs but keep them if they are snagged. This would mean dont try to snag but if you do... Think all people would fish by the same rules or think they would be putting more weight on then they used to.
    Some fish wont make it. It would be nice if every fish that wasnt eaten by something did make it.
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    Some pretty good points. Most of the counter arguments seem to make sense.

    However, do any of you think that overall, the total number of fishermen would increase with that kind of rule change? If not, then perhaps the honest folk (most of us) would be off the river. That would leave more room for the knuckleheads, perhaps leading to fewer cases of knuckleheadonism. And gear restrictions, which exist in some form in most fisheries anyway, might mitigate the rest. Maybe?
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    Member AK Troutbum's Avatar
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    I thought that all caught Reds (except the ones that I catch in my dipnet) were snagged? How often do reds actually take a fly/lure? I think, not very often. Just my two cents.

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    The question I have is how many foul hooked reds die after the snag and (often times poor) release or are too injured or stressed to spawn?
    I know many are hooked in bad places and/or dragged in backwards,sideways etc.
    I also wonder what the average snag to legal hook up ratio is?
    If instead of foul hooking 20+ fish of which 3 or 4 don't spawn a guy gets three and is done is there a difference? Other than the fact those fish will be Human food instead of animal and plant food of course.
    So while some may not limit out that doesn't mean they didn't kill some fish anyways.
    Does that make sense to any of you?
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    I'd rather see mandatory circle hooks.

    The first three landed WILL be legal keepers... DONE. Cycle off the water and let the next guy get in there and do the same.

    Easy enough to enact into regulation and easily enforced... retire your rod after retaining a limit of sockeye, no bank fishing from the Kenai or Kasilof for the rest of that day
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    Can you imagine how dangerous it would be at the confluence with folks standing 10 feet from each other and snagging hooks literally flying all around? That absolute lunacy!!!!!

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    I agree with Brian and fishNphysicians points, I like that circle hook idea,.. It would not even be fun to be on a river with everyone rippin reds and stackin em like cord wood.

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Can you imagine how dangerous it would be at the confluence with folks standing 10 feet from each other and snagging hooks literally flying all around? That absolute lunacy!!!!!
    I havent seen anyone advocate for the use of snagging hooks.
    Just the fact that fish hooked elsewhere than in the mouth using what gear we allow now could be kept.
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