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Thread: Sport fish Guide Industry Limited Entry Program

  1. #1

    Default Sport fish Guide Industry Limited Entry Program

    Fish and Game is looking into a Sport fish Guide Industry Limited Entry Program and first off I will say for the record that I am a guide (Freshwater rivers out that way - points west) In as much as I only found out about this by stumbling upon it on the Alaska Department of Fish and Game’s web site I am not sure how many folks actually know about it. Also in as much as the web page (see link below) has a comments section regarding the idea that precludes discussion I thought I would post about it here and see what happens.

    Thanks for your time, and may the debate be spirited, thoughtful, enlightening, even educational … Oh and hopefully I spell checked this before the hippie gets me for aspelling violation.

    F&G web site link re: this..

    http://www.sf.adfg.state.ak.us/state...SpecIssues.cfm

  2. #2
    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKGuide View Post
    aspelling violation.

    couldn't resist!
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    It seems to me that limited entry is always supported by the checkbook.

    X amount of permits times Y amount of guides/outfitters = The guy with the money/points is the one with the permit.

    I personally do believe that guides should be regulated, and I'm not convinced on any given formula.

    Perhaps, rather than fining violators of the laws, the State and Federal governments could prohibit pirates from operating in Alaska EVER? Perhaps we could ask "guides" to quit hooking their client's fish, or shooting their game?

    You're right, if I didn't see it, it didn't happen.

    Fair chase is more than an ideal. It is the state of mind that people have combined with the personal efforts they're willing to expend to get what they are looking for. If it fauls short of exhaustion, it probably wasn't really fair.

    Back to the point, limited entry has to do with who is willing to pay what for how much. Bad idea.

  4. #4

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    Oh buggers was that not more of a spacing violation? lol

    Thanks

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    Default AK guide

    Yes, a spacing mistake. One half demerit. Try harder next time.

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default An alternative view-

    Quote Originally Posted by SoggyMountain View Post
    It seems to me that limited entry is always supported by the checkbook.

    X amount of permits times Y amount of guides/outfitters = The guy with the money/points is the one with the permit.
    ... limited entry has to do with who is willing to pay what for how much. Bad idea.
    It doesn't have to be that way. If we went with longevity, we get the folks who have done it a while, not necessarily those with the deepest pockets. We're seeing something like this with the new hunting guide situation. Considering other alternatives, I like this one.

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    Member AK Tubes's Avatar
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    Is this anything like the IFQ deal with commercial fisheries? Seems like the big companies out of the Seattle area get the biggest piece of that pie, or maybe I'm ignorant and misinformed...

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    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Tubes View Post
    Is this anything like the IFQ deal with commercial fisheries? Seems like the big companies out of the Seattle area get the biggest piece of that pie, or maybe I'm ignorant and misinformed...
    Less like the IFQ's, more like Salmon Permits....Once a comm fisherman got his limited entry permit he could the sell it...And many did.

    Certainly a flawed system. I would like to see something with a little local preference however....
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
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  9. #9

    Default

    The important document to read is the March 2007 notes. Everyone should know that nothing has been decided. All the task force has done is to try and think of every question that needs to be answered prior to developing a limited entry program. The department will be looking for the public to provide their input to answering the questions or thinking of questions they might have missed.
    Rather that using the departments web site to just bash the concept, people should be providing comments they can use in determining what sort of limited entry system they could live with. Its a given that it won't please everyone.

  10. #10
    Member akfisherman's Avatar
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    Default Simple solution

    Guide requirement for any Alaskan Guide.....10 yr permanent resident, no more than 30 days absence from the state during the period of october 1 to may 1....that will flush about 70 percent of all guides out of the system
    What are ya...a fisherman...or a catcherman?

  11. #11
    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    akfisherman, I think you'd be in the 90 percentile.... I'm for that.

    Michael, the problem with the LE system has always been the other end... "permit for sale." If you can eliminate that factor, it might be a consideration for someone like me.

  12. #12
    Member willphish4food's Avatar
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    I just hate to see the wrong kind of government controls on an industry. LE sounds great from some viewpoints, but I'd much rather see market forces sort it out. Word of mouth can make or break a business, and I like to see that continue to decide which guides do well and which ones fizzle out. Just because some areas of the state have huge numbers of guides, don't make the entire state pay for their transgressions.

  13. #13
    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Default Limit them

    There has been a lot of talk on this forum about subsistence and how unfair it is. But really, when you come right down to it, when you take a public resource, such as king salmon, and allow an industry to influence policy and bag limit and such, and in a way, control access, you have an unfair playing field. I have been crowded out of multiple fishing locations by guides who were using the river- my river your river- as a means to make a living. They did not see it as a way to fill their freezer or just enjoy a day on the river. To them it was a means to make a living.

    I have never been guided. IF I COULD AFFORD TO BE GUIDED I wouldn't avail myself of one because I believe that people need to experience the outdoors for themselves by learning it on their own, or perhaps from a friend. If they can't handle a rod or a boat or a gun on their own, perhaps they shouldn't be out on the salt or the river or woods at all. Imagine how many fewer people there would be out there.

    Yeah, I know that there are people who don't have a boat, or the gear, but that wouldn't stop a determined person from figuring a way to get the boat or gear, or form alliances with people who do.

    This all may sound pretty radical, and I have friends who are guides for whom I have a high regard. At the moment I am working for a charter outfit that uses guides. Still, there are just way too many trying to get in on this industry, and many of them are only part-time Alaskans. Limit the industry.

  14. #14
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Nobody saw this before now?

    Heres me:

    "Date Submitted: 03/29/2007Guide type: FreshWater
    A limited entry system for guides should give preference to in state guides as there are many places that out of state guides come into Alaska and take the place of Alaskan guides because they will work for much cheaper. In most parts of Alaska fishing guides make very little money, a limited entry system would hopefully raise the price of a guide especially if Alaskan's were given first priority for permits. The permit system should not be for life which would allow new guides to fill the needs of ALaska's sport fish industry. Most importantly lodges should not be alloted permits for each guide making it the guides resposibility to renew their liscence and the lodges responsibility to hire permitted guides. My last offer was for a guiding job paying $6.00/ hr for a lodge that gets $7500/ client/ week, hopefully limited entry would change that."
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    $6.00/hr for a 16/17 year old student doesn't sound too far out of line. Tips are usually pretty good if one is a good guide or assistant or whatever.....

  16. #16

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    I agree with limited entry. I do not agree with residents only. If the isn't approached with caution it will open the industry to be monopolized. I'd hate to see prices skyrocket and the quality of guides/customer satisfaction plummet. A few people will make a huge profit from this.

  17. #17
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
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    I agree in a limited entry system, as there is or will be a point where there are or will be too many guides for the resources available.

    I'm against a license that can be sold when the guide get's out of the business, it's giving them something of value based simply on the time they've been in a location. I think there should be requirements for them to buy a license for the area they're already guiding, and their time guiding there provides them a priority to getting the license. The license fees are only enough to provide funding for the paperwork. Licenses are good for say 5 years, at which point they are re-evaluated. With infractions, valid complaints et al they could loose their lincense, and hence new folks have a chance to break into the business. When the guide retires or goes out of business, his license is then available for a new guy.

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