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Thread: Thoughts on Win Model 70

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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Default Thoughts on Win Model 70

    Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction.

    Up until now I have been taking all of my alaskan game with either a 7mm-08 or 308 (for larger critters). While both of these calibers always pull through, I have been holding off on buying a magnum rifle for sometime now and really wanted to wait until I came across the right deal.

    So... yesterday I spot a Win Model 70 in the ultimate shadow SS (300WM). Link for gun here.. http://www.winchesterguns.com/produc...01C&mid=535211

    With a local special going on I can get the gun for $819 NIB, retail is $920. The problem is all of my research only pulls up the regular Featherweights. From what I can tell, the gun is very comparable to the Featherweights. Looks like the primary difference may be the stock difference.

    My other option is Featherweight in 325WSM at Sportsman's, but I believe the price is a bit over a $1000. I have been swaying back and forth between the 2 calibers until my head hurts, so any thoughts/opinions are surely appreciated. Thanks

    Mark

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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    I also forgot to add that I do reload; which is one reason why the 325WSM appealed to me (I understand store bought rounds are limited in this caliber). Hopefully brass won't be to hard to find? Or possibly neck-up 300WSM...

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    Quote Originally Posted by shimano 33 View Post
    I also forgot to add that I do reload; which is one reason why the 325WSM appealed to me (I understand store bought rounds are limited in this caliber). Hopefully brass won't be to hard to find? Or possibly neck-up 300WSM...
    My first thought after reading your initial post was answered on your second post. Knowing that you reload I'd buy the Featherweight 325WSM and not look back.

    There is one other option and it's something that i'm in the process of now and that is to take either of the rifles that you have now and rebore to 358 Winchester. However if I lived up there I would just get the 325WSM.

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    I'm with EKC on the 358 Winchester, 7mm08 and 308 are so close . . . turn your 308 into a 358 Winchester and you don't need a magnum at all.


    I am no fan of the WSMs but you need more caliber, you have .284” and .308” now I’d take the 325wsm over just a faster 308.
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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies! Now decisions decisions...

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    I have had good luck getting brass for .325. I wish there was better inventory of bullets at the local stores though.

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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoose35 View Post
    I have had good luck getting brass for .325. I wish there was better inventory of bullets at the local stores though.

    Sent from my XT1058 using Tapatalk
    Where are you buying it from? (if you don't mind me asking) Or are you referring to range pickup?

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    Member hoose35's Avatar
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    I have got some at swh and three bears in kenai.

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    Rumor has it that winchester has stopped production on the 325 WSM. I guess they sell in AK, but not doing so well everywhere else. Might want to grab it while it's there.
    Some people call it sky busting... I call it optimism
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    I thought you would never ask. The best feature the Mod. 70 ever had was the original trigger, not the trigger they are currently making. The old trigger was the best big game rifle trigger made. The controlled round feed with the big claw extractor makes many of us feel warm and fuzzy. But thousands of hunters do fine with out controlled round feed. I have owned a few pre-64 rifles and still have a couple, all worked wonderfully. Yes, the way they funnel gas if a case let go needs improvement. Since I only hunt with brass that has been fired 3 times or less and don't know any one eyed Mod. 70 shooters and use reasonable powder charges it is not an issue for me. My custom .338 was built from a "Classic Stainless" Mod. 70. The "Classic Stainless" or "Classic" is probably the best Mod. 70 made and you can find them on the internet at used gun sales at times. They also can be improved with spring steel magazine follower springs and extractors and pinning and welding the bolt collar. The potential for a very good rifle is there. As for calibers, the 30-06, .300 and .338 Win. Mag. all work great with the great bullets we can get.

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    shimano,
    While I don't live in Alaska, I have had many great trips to your State. The only reason you may need a "magnum" would be for interior brown bear and the larger version on Kodiak. As you are holding out for a deal, I would opt for the 300WM. I have had both the 300WM and the 325WSM and hand loaded for them. The 300WM will be around forever but the 325WSM will become more obscure meaning brass availability would be a concern. Yes you could stockpile and be set but the 300WM will never have that problem. In fact it still outsells the 300WSM according to industry statements. A 200gr. Partition in a 300WM is formable brownie medicine as well as for moose. There are no accuracy concerns for either cartridge but component concerns would be an ongoing issue for the 325WSM. The latest move for Winchester to have their Model 70's become assembled in Portugal angers some but Browning has done that for many years.

    I contend that the the 300WM gives you more versatility than the 325WSM which is slowly becoming a bit of a collector cartridge. While the 358Win sounds interesting, it has struggled for survival since its inception in 1955. Components here become an issue too. I'd save the gunsmithing bill and shoot a 180gr. Protected Partition in my .308Win.

    Anyway good luck. Its always interesting when thinking about a new cartridge/rifle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knikglacier View Post
    While the 358Win sounds interesting, it has struggled for survival since its inception in 1955. Components here become an issue too.
    Components are never an issue with 358 Winchester, factory ammo sure but not components. 308W or 7.62 brass is as common as brass gets and it takes nothing to neck it of fire form it. .358 bullets are plentiful and easy to find, lately a lot easier than .308 bullets with the shortages. 358 Winchester kills every bit as well and likely better at real world Alaska big ranges than does a 300WM without bloodshoting half a moose. 358 Win and 35 Whelen are the ones I build over and over for Alaskans than hunt a lot, there is a reason . . . it don’t need to be called “magnum” or travel a million mile an hour to kill big tough critters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    . . . it don’t need to be called “magnum” or travel a million mile an hour to kill big tough critters.
    ...'nuff said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by knikglacier View Post
    shimano,
    While I don't live in Alaska, I have had many great trips to your State. The only reason you may need a "magnum" would be for interior brown bear and the larger version on Kodiak. .
    Hmmmmmm......and all this time I thought they called "interior" brown bears grizzlies........lol

    The only reason I ever bought my 8mag back in the 80s was because I was to go on a brown bear hunt here on the Kenai. I figured I might be a little under gunned with my 308...
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the input guys! I was extra nice to the O'l lady this morning and told her I needed a "few things" from SW…..and walked out with the 325WSM! Found the dies I needed and some H4350 to start off with. Now to see if I can find some 200gr. Accubonds..

    325WSM.jpg

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    Needless go say, I'm no expert, but we all have our preferences and ideas.

    I love what 338 mag. and knickglacier have said.

    I would certainly stay away from the WSMs for the reasons given and others. I would also stay away from the Mdl 70s. I don't consider them to be the best or the best value, either. For one thing, there is no Accuracy Guarantee.

    http://www.weatherby.com/vanguardseries2/ Here, is what I would buy for myself, because of the features and design. Note that the Stock Drop is 7/8" more than twice as much as the Mdl 70 you mention, which is only 3/8" and there is no comb or cheek piece either.

    I can understand why you might want something more potent than your 308 or 7mm-08, not that you can't get by with either of them. (They are both short cartridges that don't lend themselves too well to heavier bullets.)

    The beauty of a "Magnum", is more power for bigger game, BUT it's also LONGER RANGE. Of course, you get both with the 300 Winchester Mag. You can shoot heavier bullets, faster, and flatter than you can with your 308, and it should be plenty gun at any range.

    You don't even hafta load it Hot to outdo 308 and 06 ballistics. And, there should be no need to use lighter than 180-200 grain bullets, since those weights shoot flat enough.

    Personally, I prefer the 7mm RM, but there has to be a reason that the 300 Mag. is the most popular up here. I'm saying it is one POWERFUL cartridge, with no compromises. One load should do it all.

    It will kick you harder than you're used to, but not as much as 338 or 375 cartridges will.

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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    I would certainly stay away from the WSMs for the reasons given and others. I would also stay away from the Mdl 70s. I don't consider them to be the best or the best value, either. For one thing, there is no Accuracy Guarantee.

    Smitty of the North
    What reasons are you referring to? Just curious. If brass.. then 300WSM owners should be scared as well; if I can just neck these up?

    Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by shimano 33 View Post
    What reasons are you referring to? Just curious. If brass.. then 300WSM owners should be scared as well; if I can just neck up these?

    Mark
    From what I've been able to gather there have been feeding problems with some rifles, since it's harder to feed short cartridges.

    The 300WSM will not deliver the performance of the 300WM, especially with heavier bullets, that you would probably choose, for beeg stuff.

    Some folks find the Short Action limiting.

    Also the WSMs are loaded to higher pressures, and there have been issues with FL ammo.

    I'm not that familiar with the handloading issues with the WSMs but I've read about them on this and other forums.

    There used to be WSM Forum, where you could get first hand information about them when they were all the rage, with some people, but I believe it is now Defunct.

    When the WSMs were new, I read a lot about them and did numerous Internet Serches, and that is the basis for my opinions.

    I don't know about the brass, or scarcity of it, but reportedly it is very tuff/thick/strong, and maybe harder to work with.

    Smitty of the North
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    From what I've been able to gather there have been feeding problems with some rifles, since it's harder to feed short cartridges.

    The 300WSM will not deliver the performance of the 300WM, especially with heavier bullets, that you would probably choose, for beeg stuff.

    Some folks find the Short Action limiting.

    Also the WSMs are loaded to higher pressures, and there have been issues with FL ammo.

    I'm not that familiar with the handloading issues with the WSMs but I've read about them on this and other forums.

    There used to be WSM Forum, where you could get first hand information about them when they were all the rage, with some people, but I believe it is now Defunct.

    When the WSMs were new, I read a lot about them and did numerous Internet Serches, and that is the basis for my opinions.

    I don't know about the brass, or scarcity of it, but reportedly it is very tuff/thick/strong, and maybe harder to work with.

    Smitty of the North
    I talked to a guy today at the range who had a Tika 300 WSM.

    He said he had trouble getting the brass sized fully. We were discussing ways to deal with the problem.

    He was using light bullets, 168 grain, IIRC. Said, his Handloads were more accurate than FLs.

    Anyway, nother WSM handloading problem.

    Smitty of the North
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    Member shimano 33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    He said he had trouble getting the brass sized fully.

    Smitty of the North
    When you say "sized fully" do you mean full length resizing? I plan on pushing the shoulder back just a tad with mine, not doing full length.

    Thanks for taking the time to post your findings.

    Mark

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