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Thread: Little Su going to 4-stroke only...

  1. #1
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Default Little Su going to 4-stroke only...

    Did I miss the discussion on this somewhere?

    Little Susitna River: Beginning January 1, 2017, a person may not sport fish from a boat that is powered by use of a motor, unless the motor is a four-stroke motor or a direct fuel injection two-stroke motor. The Board delayed implementing the regulation until 2017 to allow people time to prepare for the change.

    http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/sf/EONR/i...n.NR&NRID=1903
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    Weird, I didn't know the little Sue had issues with contamination like the Kenai. I would of thought a horsepower limit would of been in place before a two stroke ban.
    Why does the ban only apply to fishing? That makes no sense at all. If your concerned about pollution it should be a ban for any use, not just selective use. Seems like someone has an interest in selling more 4 strokes.
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    Member c-bolt's Avatar
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    Can we still "hunt" fish?
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    Default its progress

    bliss I expect the answer to be merely because they can much more easily eliminate fishermen in 2 strokes because no one can say that they'll starve without their 2 stroke's use. Fishermen are easier to get to comply than landowners, and in the law's defense, fishermen are likely most of the problem.

    If the restriction was for all travel there are a zillion cabin owners that would cry foul because they can't get to their property cause they don't own a 4 stroke.

    A long time ago people got all jammed up with they phased out leaded gasoline for cars; its progress and no matter how many scream bloody murder, we have to care more for the resource than we do - 4 strokes are a positive step in this direction.

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    It's a restriction from the board of fish, which only has the authority to restrict fisherman.
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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    My guess is it is easier to pass a law prohibiting fishing from a 2 stroke than it is to outright ban them.
    ADF&G can easily apply this law to all fishermen whereas a full blown restriction might have to go through the state legislature. Just a guess on my part.
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  7. #7

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    Like others have said, ADF&G or the board of fish can only regulate things that apply to fishing. Remember the ban on felt soles originally only applied to fisherman. It took longer to get a full on ban through the State Legislature. I would expect that this is only a start and a full ban of 2-strokes will follow within a year or two just like the felt sole thing did.

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    At least all the four wheelers and rzrs that run right through the river's spawning grounds already are 4 strokes. Whew!




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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    Weird, I didn't know the little Sue had issues with contamination like the Kenai.b
    Probably more boater hours per cubic foot of water discharged than the kenai by a long shot. Little su is practically a creek lets be honest. It's a shame to have let it fill up with power boats as has happened. Now they're just gonna head down the inevitable path of nitpick rules and maybe nonmotorized days and 4 days a week C and R, and all the other cow patty type burrocrat stuff humans come up with to try and stick band aids on the seemingly unfixable problem of congestion on a tiny braid of water. This has been coming since the 1980s kenai king sport-fishing guide rush took off.

    I've gone from campfires and king ribs at Burma and canoeing the river from boyhood to young adult to basically avoiding the lower river all summer. But apparently it's all popular like, being loved to death by the splash and dash free type Alaskan mentality that we all enjoy so much. It is what it is. Trade offs.



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    Member mudbuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by andweav View Post
    At least all the four wheelers and rzrs that run right through the river's spawning grounds already are 4 strokes. Whew!
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    Thought most of the land area was non-motorized

    Maybe drift boats , canoes only is the answer for the river too.
    from the power line or gas line upstream.

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    Member alaskabliss's Avatar
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    Since it will go 4 stroke I guess im safe with my 21' inboard... Im being sarcastic but I don't see what the 4 stroke rule is trying to do. Liberal agenda it seems. I would be way more impressed and happy if they did a horse power limit, not a 4 stroke limit. Safety first, and lets admit, that river is a zoo with way too big of boats. Suprised people arent killed every year on that stretch of water
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    Default the law writers don't always get it right

    Quote Originally Posted by alaskabliss View Post
    I don't see what the 4 stroke rule is trying to do. Liberal agenda it seems. I would be way more impressed and happy if they did a horse power limit, not a 4 stroke limit.
    I'm betting you're right that limiting HP would better benefit the resource. Your funny reply about the inboard did get me wondering also about surface drives which do not exhaust underwater; wouldn't a two stroke surface drive (if you could find one) pollute the water way less than the tightest newest 4 stroke conventional drive? So the 2 stroke ban probably ought to instead be a ban of any 2 stroke non DFI that expends exhaust gases underwater, instead of how they're writing it maybe.

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    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    I don't think drift only days would work on the LS... Unless they punch several more access roads in between the Parks hwy and Burma. There are just too many private properties and too many miles of River to justify drift only.
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    If the goal is to reduce pressure on the river, and on the fish. Drift only would do the job. The goal is not to make it to where there is no effort needed to access prime fishing of hunting. As more people use small jet boats to rip up smaller streams we will see more and more restrictions on motor use on rivers!

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    When they were talking 4-strokes only on the Kenai lots of people got upset.
    They blamed high hydrocarbon levels in everything from old leaky diesel tanks in peoples back yards to industry and everything in between.
    They claimed the platforms in the inlet put out more hydrocarbons in a day than boats on the river did in a year.
    Well now that the regs have been in place a few years guess what?
    Hydrocarbon levels dropped significantly.
    Granted there are less king fishing boats these days.
    But it did help the river greatly to eliminate the 2-stroke motors.
    Would you rather the feds shut the entire river down to motorized users due to high hydrocarbon levels or start now with 4 strokes and fix it that way like they did down here on the Kenai?

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    This four stroke bull beeeeeeeeeep is getting way out of hand. Four stroke is NOT an improvement. This is one more law imposed by unelected authority. It's more liberal enviro crap.

    Does anyone know the penalty for using a 2 stroke on the Kenai, or what it will be on the little Su?

    I think every 2 stroke owner in AK should violate this law in an act of civil disobedience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    This four stroke bull beeeeeeeeeep is getting way out of hand. Four stroke is NOT an improvement. This is one more law imposed by unelected authority. It's more liberal enviro crap.
    Got a link to an authoritative source or two?

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    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    This four stroke bull beeeeeeeeeep is getting way out of hand. Four stroke is NOT an improvement.
    Not for whom you or the river?
    "The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has tested and concluded that older two-stroke engines contribute 12 to 20 times more unburned fuel into the environment than a four-stroke engine of a similar size. "
    http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/lawsgu...upload/11C.pdf

    Does anyone know the penalty for using a 2 stroke on the Kenai, or what it will be on the little Su?
    Looks like it is $150. It is 11 AAC 20.860
    http://www.courts.alaska.gov/sco/sco1431.txt
    I think every 2 stroke owner in AK should violate this law in an act of civil disobedience
    Good luck with that one!!!
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    I guess what gets me is when they close an entire river or lake to motorized users.
    If the feds are calling the river "threatened" due to hydrocarbon levels and going to 4-stroke motors keeps it open then I vote for keep the river open and go to 4 stroke motors.
    Rather than leaving it unchanged as long as possible then closing it completly to motorized users.
    For the record I have a motor boat and a driftboat. I see both sides of the issue but like I said I favor restrictions now instead of total closure later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    This four stroke bull beeeeeeeeeep is getting way out of hand. Four stroke is NOT an improvement. This is one more law imposed by unelected authority. It's more liberal enviro crap.

    Does anyone know the penalty for using a 2 stroke on the Kenai, or what it will be on the little Su?

    I think every 2 stroke owner in AK should violate this law in an act of civil disobedience.
    Please share your source that shows four stroke outboards put the same amount of or more hydrocarbons than a two stroke.

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