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Thread: Can a canoe be flown out to a remote lake under a beaver or otter on floats?

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    Default Can a canoe be flown out to a remote lake under a beaver or otter on floats?

    I want to fly out to some remote property and check it out. I was thinking about hiring a pilot to fly me out there with a canoe and I was curious if anyone knew if it was possible to attach a canoe under the fuselage of a beaver or otter.


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    Member hogfamily's Avatar
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    "Beavers are one of the few planes in Canada that were approved in their original flight manuals to carry canoes and other loads strapped to the outside."

    http://www.oregonlive.com/outdoors/i..._beaver_t.html

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    Member bobmikk's Avatar
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    Took a Beaver flight to a remote lake in Ontario, and they strapped our canoe to the float/cross braces. Made us cut off the foam padding on the gunnels to ensure a very secure tie down to the plane.

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Yes.
    I have hauled canoes with Super Cubs and even a PA-11 cub with an external load permit.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    My pasted reply to the same topic in the canoe forum.

    Beavers can carry passengers with an external load. Other planes with ext load permits are operated in the restricted category when carrying external loads. No passengers are allowed unless they're crew, that is they're necessary for the operation. There's a shade of gray for you.

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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    I had a video on my computer of me hauling a Kayak on a Super Cub.. But when I transferred it from my old computer it refuses to play...
    Anyway as mentioned Beavers and Otters are type certificated to haul certain external loads.
    There used to be a guy around here who hauled people and inflatable kayaks for drop offs. So and Inflatable is another way you might attack your problem.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    Member High Country's Avatar
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    otter.jpg

    An Otter with a jon boat, canoes are no problem.

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    I might be wrong, but I thought that FAA regs prohibited commercial operators from flying external loads with passengers aboard. Am I wrong?

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    Member polardds's Avatar
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    Existing restricted airworthiness certificates (what you need to fly an external load in the USA) are no longer issued for this. If you have an existing restricted certificate for the aircraft it is still valid. They do not transfer with the sale of the aircraft or the pilot. (The usual Alaska things are still allowed, snow shoes ect) No passengers are allowed when operating with a restricted airworthiness certificate. So no more antler hauling either. Back to the Beaver. It is one of the few aircraft that had canoes specifically designated on their type certificate so canoes on Beavers are not a problem.

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    Is the restricted category approval dead or is it just not approvable in the same old way? Field approvals are going through Juneau now. The process has changed. Might this be what's happening with the external loads approvals?

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    Member polardds's Avatar
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    I have contacted my Federal Legislators and the Alaska Airmen's association is working on it, but currently the FAA will no longer be issuing external load restricted airworthiness certificates. No exceptions. So no more antlers on the wing or floats, legally. I went to apply to the FAA for a restricted airworthiness certificate for my new to me plane (for a lumber rack and antler reasons) and was informed of such.

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    More reason to go EXP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    More reason to go EXP.
    Yeah, but can you take an already Standard Category Utility Type Cert aircraft (e.g. cub, 180, etc) and convert that to an Experimental Cert.? I thought those Exp certs were only for home built (Glasair, Long-EZ, etc.) type aircraft.

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    Member avidflyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    Yeah, but can you take an already Standard Category Utility Type Cert aircraft (e.g. cub, 180, etc) and convert that to an Experimental Cert.? I thought those Exp certs were only for home built (Glasair, Long-EZ, etc.) type aircraft.
    Right now you can't.. or it is extremely difficult. About the only way to get a certified aircraft in the experimental category right now is if your working on some new gizmo on the plane and using the plane for certification of an STC or something of that nature. Basically, you have XX hours to have the plane experimental while working toward certification, after that you have to have it certified or remove what ever gizmo you were working on and return the plane to the original configuration. If they pass the Primary Non Commercial then you can pretty much treat them as experimental.

    I think Mr. Pid was talking more along the lines of buying or building a plane that is already experimental from the getgo.

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    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    It still can be done, but very involved. Also the word is that once you convert to exp. You can't go back to cert. . I've been looking at that route building my PA12 and looks a bit tricky on manufactured parts that are cert. vs non cert parts and who is doing the work. There is a formula the FAA encourages you to use but it's not required. The best way to find out is contact a DAR ( I think that's the initials) a civilian that help you thru a certification of a project.
    I would think a Cessna or beaver would be next to in possible to convert , piper the easiest.

  16. #16

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    The original type certificate for the beaver has a couple of different canoes and boats that were approved for external load as well as, "lumber and tools". However, for the lumber and tools you need to have a 'rack' built to the specs of a drawing done by a Canadian division of Forestry that changed names, and which the successor can't find the drawings. I have looked all over for the drawings and the only ones found so far are at Kenmore, and they want three thousand dollars a side for the racks and drawings. So, if you have the right kind of canoe or boat, yes you can legally carry them, if not, I do not believe so. As to carrying passengers, you are allowed one person to assist with the loads.
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